NBA 2013?14 Season
- Thread starter Neki
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MN fans have known this from the start of this offseason but looking very likely now that Flip will end up coaching. That makes him our coach, GM and part owner. I'm sure he has a ton of accountability.
I'm sort of holding out for the inevitable Love trade coming sometime over the next few weeks (to be clear: Don't fucking trade him! Let him walk away from that 5th year. That 20 mil is a lot to ask a 24 year old to give up. Love for Klay/Barnes/Lee? FUCK OFF), but I'll be taking a Wolves sabbatical until Flip is no longer employed by the team and Glen Taylor is no longer the owner. We are seriously, far and away, the most depressing team in the league.
Now it only feels fair to me to jump to a team that also will never actually win a championship so, Djay, I'm rooting for the Raptors for a while.
I'm sort of holding out for the inevitable Love trade coming sometime over the next few weeks (to be clear: Don't fucking trade him! Let him walk away from that 5th year. That 20 mil is a lot to ask a 24 year old to give up. Love for Klay/Barnes/Lee? FUCK OFF), but I'll be taking a Wolves sabbatical until Flip is no longer employed by the team and Glen Taylor is no longer the owner. We are seriously, far and away, the most depressing team in the league.
Now it only feels fair to me to jump to a team that also will never actually win a championship so, Djay, I'm rooting for the Raptors for a while.
Djay
Trakanon Raider
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Haha, welcome aboard.
I agree on letting Love walk. This isn't a situation where your team would still contend without Love, in which case you'd want to get back as much as you can for him. If Love does walk away from that 5th year, you pretty much just want to increase your lottery odds at that point. Bringing in additional not-quite All-Stars hurts you in that case.
I agree on letting Love walk. This isn't a situation where your team would still contend without Love, in which case you'd want to get back as much as you can for him. If Love does walk away from that 5th year, you pretty much just want to increase your lottery odds at that point. Bringing in additional not-quite All-Stars hurts you in that case.
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This is the rational way to look at things, but I know this isn't how Flip sees things. He's a good ol' boy, old school jumpshooter of a basketball player that thinks with "time and system" any player can succeed. A Rubio/Pek/Martin/Brewer core is going nowhere fast. I don't care who you add to it.
Look at Ujiri and look at Flip and you see two polar opposites.
Foggy
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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I think you trade Love for what you can, preferably lottery picks. Then, gut the rest of the roster so you can draft in the lottery for 3 years or so ala the Thunder. Of course, you cannot fuck up the picks, which Minny will probably due. The only player I would keep around is Pek since a low post presence is so incredibly hard to find these days.
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The thing is though...what are the chances of any of those 3 lottery picks become anywhere near as good a Kevin Love? Slim to none, man. He's a legit superstar. Good enough to be the best player on a really good team. There are maybe 6 or 7 of those guys in the entire league. If you're telling me I'm going to pull Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden level players with those 3 picks I say sign me up, but that just isn't going to happen. It's astounding how great the Thunder front office is at drafting, but that isn't the norm and I don't think it can be expected.
Love is in a position right now where he's trying to quietly force a trade in order to get that 5th year from another team. No one wants to leave money on the table and a max 5th year is a ton of dough. I dare him to leave. We're shit after he leaves either way.
Araxen
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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He's leaving and him hitting FA is actually better for him because any team he's traded to will have to give up something for him. The only team that can trade for him and not give up the farm is Chicago pretty much and anybody else will end up being a Twolves 2.0 because they'll be depleted player wise.
Sebudai
Ssraeszha Raider
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Sucka!Damn it, even in Doomsday NBA, I can't get one of my teams to win a championship.
Utah Jazz, 2043-44 NBA champions!
Ambiturner
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Foggy
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Here are all the players drafted shortly after Minnesota selected a shitty player since drafting Kevin Love!
2009: Pick 5 (Rubio) & 6 (Flynn). Curry at 7, DeRozan at 9.
2010: Pick 4 (Wesley Johnson). Cousins at 5, Monroe at 7, Hayward at 9, Paul George at 10.
2011: Pick 2 (Derrick Williams). Klay Thompson at 11, Kawhi Leonard at 15. (Wow this draft sucked, cannot really blame them for whiffing on players that were picked outside the top 10).
2012: No Pick
2013: Pick 9 (Trey Burke, traded to Utah lol). CJ McCollum at 10, Michael Carter-Williams at 11, Steven Adams at 12.
Cannot fault them for 2011 and 2012. 2009 and 2010 are horrible misses. 2013 will end up being a pretty stupid decision too.
That is right, if Minny doesn't fuck up 2009 and 2010. Their current roster is Curry, DeRozan, Love, and Cousins.
2009: Pick 5 (Rubio) & 6 (Flynn). Curry at 7, DeRozan at 9.
2010: Pick 4 (Wesley Johnson). Cousins at 5, Monroe at 7, Hayward at 9, Paul George at 10.
2011: Pick 2 (Derrick Williams). Klay Thompson at 11, Kawhi Leonard at 15. (Wow this draft sucked, cannot really blame them for whiffing on players that were picked outside the top 10).
2012: No Pick
2013: Pick 9 (Trey Burke, traded to Utah lol). CJ McCollum at 10, Michael Carter-Williams at 11, Steven Adams at 12.
Cannot fault them for 2011 and 2012. 2009 and 2010 are horrible misses. 2013 will end up being a pretty stupid decision too.
That is right, if Minny doesn't fuck up 2009 and 2010. Their current roster is Curry, DeRozan, Love, and Cousins.
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None of this is news. The Wolves have been a dysfunctional organization as long as Glen Taylor has owned them. I don't blame Love for wanting out. All I'm saying is they're my team, Love is far better than they're ever going to get back and 20 million dollars is a lot of money to leave on the table. Call the bluff. We're shitty either way. The rumored packages (Lee/Barnes/Klay, Mirotec/Butler/Boozer, Sullinger/Draft picks) all blow goat dick. He either decides 20 million dollars before hes 30 is worth it or he really wants out. We're in a very similar position if we trade him for Klay Fucking Thompson or if he just walks.
And no, I don't think he's 100% gone. If that was the case I don't think there would be so much buzz about trading him. Just like Araxen said, his best bet, to play for a winner, is to just play out next year and then go wherever he wants. He wants that full 5 year max deal AND he wants on another team. I make him choose one or the other if i'm running the team.
I'm not though. So we'll trade him. There's nothing for me to "give it up" here. This team sucks and I know it. The no trade policy isn't what the Wolves are going to end up doing it's just what they should do.
And no, I don't think he's 100% gone. If that was the case I don't think there would be so much buzz about trading him. Just like Araxen said, his best bet, to play for a winner, is to just play out next year and then go wherever he wants. He wants that full 5 year max deal AND he wants on another team. I make him choose one or the other if i'm running the team.
I'm not though. So we'll trade him. There's nothing for me to "give it up" here. This team sucks and I know it. The no trade policy isn't what the Wolves are going to end up doing it's just what they should do.
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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Why do you think letting him go for free is better than getting something back?
Djay
Trakanon Raider
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A) We get one more year out of him. This doesn't end well in all likelihood but it's one more year for him to bond with Flip and potentially change his mind. It's also a much more exciting year of Wolves basketball than the alternative, which makes a ton of sense from a business standpoint.
B) If he leaves, we're in a rebuild mode that can't start for two years anyway. A resigned Rubio (which is a foregone conclusion) + Martin/Brewer/Pek/Buddinger + whatever contract comes back (like Lee or Boozer) is all of this team's cap space. Throw Klay Thompson/Barnes or Jimmy Butler/Mirotec or Jared Sullinger/Bradley on top of that core and we're in the same spot we are now. A mid lottery team not bad enough to bottom out.
C) Love isn't going to the Cavs and we're not going to return two top 3 picks in a row for him. We're talking the packages mentioned above + a couple late first rounders. Those picks are great for smart, contending teams looking to replace talent on the cheap, not so much for ones that need to bottom the hell out and start over.
D) Mostly, the value difference is just so huge it's inconsequential. I'm not going to look at the Wolves in 5 years and say to myself 'god damn if only we had Klay Thompson (or Harrison Barones, or Jared Sullinger, or Jimmy Butler) on this team.'
B) If he leaves, we're in a rebuild mode that can't start for two years anyway. A resigned Rubio (which is a foregone conclusion) + Martin/Brewer/Pek/Buddinger + whatever contract comes back (like Lee or Boozer) is all of this team's cap space. Throw Klay Thompson/Barnes or Jimmy Butler/Mirotec or Jared Sullinger/Bradley on top of that core and we're in the same spot we are now. A mid lottery team not bad enough to bottom out.
C) Love isn't going to the Cavs and we're not going to return two top 3 picks in a row for him. We're talking the packages mentioned above + a couple late first rounders. Those picks are great for smart, contending teams looking to replace talent on the cheap, not so much for ones that need to bottom the hell out and start over.
D) Mostly, the value difference is just so huge it's inconsequential. I'm not going to look at the Wolves in 5 years and say to myself 'god damn if only we had Klay Thompson (or Harrison Barones, or Jared Sullinger, or Jimmy Butler) on this team.'
Pharazon
Silver Knight of the Realm
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Warriors can as they have as many if not more have assets than Chicago.
And from everything I've heard the Warriors are not offering Klay Thompson along with Barnes and Lee. They do not want to trade Thompson and I don't think they'd trade both Barnes and Thompson. The Wolves are dealing from a position of weakness and none of the other teams are offering two assets with that much value. They might try to get another team to take Lee in a 3 way if the Wolves don't want him, or just offer Lee / Barnes / one or two future firsts straight up and say take it or leave it. Many Warriors fans would like to see them throw in Klay as well because Love is that much of a stud, but it just sounds like the management isn't going to back down on holding on to Klay. They want to add Love to Curry and Klay to make the perimeter that much more deadly, and I think that's the reason the Warriors are on Love's list of teams he might like to play for. It may not be possible, but that's what they're obviously trying to do.
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I have no clue what Flip will end up doing here. I get the impression from the local media that he has his eyes on Klay and is probably pushing for both him and Barnes. I hope he sticks to that. I know you're a Warriors fan so you've probably got some bias here, but Barnes isn't very good at all and Lee is only in the deal to match salary. Lee isn't even that bad he just has some injury issues and wouldn't be part of the long term plan for the Wolves. Thompson is the only real asset in this package. I hope Flip sees that.
You're wrong though. Mirotic/Butler and either Boozer or Gibson to fill salary is the better deal. Not a single player discussed in any of these deals has the potential that Nikola does and Butler is a young, serviceable wing, who is already better than Barnes will ever be and potentially better than Klay (I'll surely admit to Thompson having higher potential). One less year on either of those big contracts compared to Lee too.Taking onsalary as part of trading Love just seems asinine to me.
Late first rounders would come in either deal. The lucky thing for you is Flip is dumb and doesn't agree with me, but between those two packages the Chicago one is far superior. And its nowhere close if you're sticking to this insane idea that Klay Thompson is untouchable.
Ambiturner
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You don't think trading Love for the Lakers #7 pick and whatever expiring contracts would be better than letting him walk?
I'm honestly asking. Like all NBA fans I don't know a whole lot about the Timberwolves.
I'm honestly asking. Like all NBA fans I don't know a whole lot about the Timberwolves.
