It's laughable to even compare Kobe and Wade. Kobe has morphed his game to match his declining athleticism, Wade on the other hand has not. If you told Kobe he wouldn't be playing in back to backs he would slit your throat.
NBA 2013?14 Season
- Thread starter Neki
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Listen guys. I'm a stats guy. When I compare players I look at stats and nothing else. They're the one quantifiable element of the game.
The reason Wade is better than Kobe is because his stats are better across the board.
25/5/6/2 shooting 49% and getting to the line 9 times a game is superior to 26/5/5/2 shooting 45% and getting to the line 8 times a game. I understand those stat lines are pretty damn close to one another and Kobe walks away with two more championships (right now). But I don't really care how successful a team is. One player can't win a championship. Kobe didn't win without Shaq and Gasol. Wade didn't win without Shaq and Lebron. The Clippers have a better record than the Wolves. Kevin Love is still better than Blake Griffin.
Furthermore, the jump from low 40s to nearly 50% for a guard in this league (all the while taking 9 free throws) jumps you from "volume scorer" to "efficient scorer". I don't want to say Kobe wasn't ever an efficient scorer, because when he was getting to the line 10 times a game and shooting 46% from the field he certainly was, but a player shooting 43% and getting to the line 5 times might as well be Antoine Walker. Wade had dips in shooting from time to time too but never dipped that low and has been efficient his whole career. Kobe has dipped under that line a couple times.
Injuries? Yeah that's a good point and as close as their stats are the fact that through 11 season Wade has played 100 less games maybe gives the edge to Kobe.
All I'm saying is you can't deny the stats. Wade has put up better ones. It's not something you can look at it possibly disagree with.
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Yes it's laughable that when comparing two players I pick the guy who puts up better stats. For the record, geezer Wade who played in 70 games last year put up better stats than superman Kobe.
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Yes. I was only looking at Kobe's first 11 seasons when making these comparisons.
Djay
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I'm using stats. He's an awful jump shooter and awful at taking care of the ball compared to his contemporaries at the position.Okay, I went and looked and compared him to a few guys.
Well, that's kinda my point about him...if defenders were allowed to hand-check and he wasn't getting bailed out and allowed to shoot all those free-throws, his numbers wouldn't be nearly as impressive.
But let's forget about that, because...hey, those are the rules now.You're still not talking me into a Guard that shoots 28.9% from 3s and 76.6% from the line for his career.If he's the best SG of his generation, it's because the position has been horrible, Should we mention he turns the ball over 3.5 times per game for his career?
I used to say (about the Heat), you could gather your whole team within 15 feet and let Lebron/Wade shoot open 3s all day and you'd win. Lebron improved his game...Wade is still just a one-trick pony. I'd rather have Bryant, Allen, or even Ginobili from 2005 to 2012 personally. There might be others, but those were the ones off the top of my head that I decided to check. Yes he's efficient on his 2s, yes he has numbers, but I don't respect his game.
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See this is why this argument can't ever actually be had. The argument presents itself statistically and then Laker fans laugh but offer no insight. You're right dude. Your compelling debate skills won me over.
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So like I really respect you're side of this discussion. It's thought out and meaningful but to me at least it comes across more like you just don't like him rather than anything else. Is he a bad outside shooter? Yes. But does that matter when you don't take outside shots? If a player takes 18 shots a game and makes half of those, does it matter where those shots happened? Granted, 3 pointers matter. Good 3 point shooters do a lot to help teams win games, but what's better? A 25 PPG scorer that takes one and a half 3s per game and shoots 50% from the field or a 26 PPG scorer who takes 4 threes a game but shoots 44% from the field? Wade isn't a great jump shooter, but his excellent shot selection allows him not to be.
"Listen guys. I'm a stats guy. When I compare players I look at stats and nothing else. They're the one quantifiable element of the game."
This makes a reasonable discussion with you pointless. Stats do not dictate greatness in basketball, there are so many more factors that play into greatness. Nobody thinks Wilt is greater than MJ, yet his stats are far superior.
This makes a reasonable discussion with you pointless. Stats do not dictate greatness in basketball, there are so many more factors that play into greatness. Nobody thinks Wilt is greater than MJ, yet his stats are far superior.
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You will never see me compare the stats from the 60s to the 90s. If you don't believe Kobe and Wade's stats are a meaningful element for comparison between them than you need to get your head examined.
Ambiturner
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That's your first mistake. Kobe straight out of high school wasn't even a starter. His first few seasons bring his averages down a lot. 2006 as your starting point for the original claim is also ridiculous when Kobe averaged almost 36ppg which is unheard of in the modern nba.
Gaige
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Ambiturner
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Fg % by itself doesn't mean a whole lot and shows a complete lack of understanding about the basic fundamentals of basketball.
If someone makes 99% of his shots then that's great. If he only dunks the ball and never shoots jump shots then he's not shooting very often and his 6 ppg doesn't do shit for you. Players who score in the post almost always shoot a very high % because the shots are easier but you just don't get the same opportunities to make your own shots like perimeter players. That's why Shaq and Lebron can shoot such high percentage but average <30 ppg. They'd be average 45 a game if it was as simple as whoever shoots the highest % is the best.
36ppg on 45% shooting for a guard is crazy good and if anybody in the NBA could be doing that right now they would.
Gaige
Legal Ephebophile
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That'd be like 45 shots a game, that's a bit crazy. I think if he took 30 shots a game he'd be able to average 40 though, or pretty damn close to it.
LeBron says if he took 37 shots in a game, he | ProBasketballTalk
LeBron says if he took 37 shots in a game, he | ProBasketballTalk
