NBA 2015 Playoffs Thread

Gilgamel

Gilgamel

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Lebron is better than Kobe, period. It's not even close. If you put Lebron with peak Shaq he'd win the title every single year.

But no, he isn't winning MVP if they lose.
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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popsicledeath_sl said:
MJ, Magic, Bird, hell even Kobe built teams, built cultures, worked to perfect chemistry and teamwork, not only demanded a lot from team mates but also helped them achieve it. The only thing Lebron has ever built is a pedestal for himself.

He built shit all in Cleavland where he pretty much did have the power of acquiring talent and was the man from day one, yet couldn't get shit done. He was basically responsible for the Miami big three situation, and even then, even winning championships, wasn't considered the heart and soul of those teams and people talked about him like he just showed up like a doctor after the rest of the team has prepped the OR (which is great for doctors, but not for team sports).

And now he had all season to help build a winning team. Sure, he posts pictures on Instagram and is amazing on the floor. Behinds the scenes, though? Hell, even on dismal losing teams there were still reports of Kobe going ape shit on those terrible Laker teams trying to help them become the best they can be. I've never, ever, come close to hearing anything about Lebron other than him showing up and because he's always been the best player on the court, simply expecting him to win.

The Cavs could have been building a team, creating chemistry, finding schemes, etc. Instead, the two of the big three go down and nobody is there ready to step up. Hell, Tristan Thompson and Delly are certainly trying, but it looks like here in the playoffs was the first time Lebron had ever even played with those dudes. Mozgof? JR Smith? There is talent and passion and willingness on that team, it's just nobody thought to actually do anything other than let the big three show up, and even that wasn't working great, and then when they started getting injured, oops, the team that's been neglected and treated like extras instead of understudies aren't ready for the big show. Who would have thought!

We say Lebron has simply been cursed with shitty teams. I say he doesn't do much to make teams great other than being great himself and being confused why other players aren't inherently prepared to help Lebron add to his legacy.
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It seems weird to put all this responsibility on Lebron. Moreover, how much do you really know about what goes on within the team and its chemistry? A couple stories here and there isn't much to go on. Also, if those guys weren't ready for the big show, how did they win two games, almost another, and compete hard in a fourth? You can't magically make people more talented overnight (see Kobe's last few teams).

Lebron has also had some mediocre coaches and it seems pretty bizarre to me to think that Lebron can completely overtake any influence any coach or front office has.
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

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That post isn't really worth responding to. Pops just doesn't like LeBron and wrote a book about it. He's like the anti-Mippo/Gaige.
 
B

Badabidi_sl

shitlord
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popsicledeath_sl said:
MJ, Magic, Bird, hell even Kobe built teams, built cultures, worked to perfect chemistry and teamwork, not only demanded a lot from team mates but also helped them achieve it. The only thing Lebron has ever built is a pedestal for himself.

He built shit all in Cleavland where he pretty much did have the power of acquiring talent and was the man from day one, yet couldn't get shit done. He was basically responsible for the Miami big three situation, and even then, even winning championships, wasn't considered the heart and soul of those teams and people talked about him like he just showed up like a doctor after the rest of the team has prepped the OR (which is great for doctors, but not for team sports).

And now he had all season to help build a winning team. Sure, he posts pictures on Instagram and is amazing on the floor. Behinds the scenes, though? Hell, even on dismal losing teams there were still reports of Kobe going ape shit on those terrible Laker teams trying to help them become the best they can be. I've never, ever, come close to hearing anything about Lebron other than him showing up and because he's always been the best player on the court, simply expecting him to win.

The Cavs could have been building a team, creating chemistry, finding schemes, etc. Instead, the two of the big three go down and nobody is there ready to step up. Hell, Tristan Thompson and Delly are certainly trying, but it looks like here in the playoffs was the first time Lebron had ever even played with those dudes. Mozgof? JR Smith? There is talent and passion and willingness on that team, it's just nobody thought to actually do anything other than let the big three show up, and even that wasn't working great, and then when they started getting injured, oops, the team that's been neglected and treated like extras instead of understudies aren't ready for the big show. Who would have thought!

We say Lebron has simply been cursed with shitty teams. I say he doesn't do much to make teams great other than being great himself and being confused why other players aren't inherently prepared to help Lebron add to his legacy.
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Kobe blows.
 
Kaines

Kaines

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lendarios_sl said:
1993 NBA Finals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, just look at MJ and Barkelys numbers. LBJ does not come close to those numbers. That series was amazing.
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You're right. LBJ doesn't come close... he does better.

Through the first five games, James has gathered an incredible 18 percent of all the points scored, assists dished and rebounds collected by anyone in this series. If that stands, it will be 1.1 percentage points higher than the next highest over the past 46 years (since they started having a finals MVP in 1969)
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Heres Another Story About How Great LeBron James Is | FiveThirtyEight
 
Pharazon

Pharazon

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Cool, but that's very much a product of the style of basketball the Cavs are playing. Ie, 40 minutes of Lebron iso ball where he either takes one of his near 40 shots a game or finds open shooters and cutters. His numbers are not better than Jordan's from that series, granted that Phoenix defense wasn't nearly as good as the Warriors D.
 
Lost Virtue

Lost Virtue

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We are also forgetting that the NBA has become pretty pussified since the MJ era especially with the rediculous flops that occur (Lebron is fantastic at this part of the game). Basically any form of contact is considered a foul in Lebron's era whereas you could almost get away with murder (when playing defense) back in the early-mid 90s. This could be because physically, NBA players today are much larger, stronger, etc, but still isn't a great excuse. Lebron is an oustanding talent, but I agree that while he is talented himself, he not do much to help the others around him. He tries to put all the weight on his shoulders (likely to put himself in the spotlight for a bigger, better contract) which makes his team's suffer ultimately.
 
Gilgamel

Gilgamel

A Man Chooses....
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Lost Virtue_sl said:
Lebron is an oustanding talent, but I agree that while he is talented himself, he not do much to help the others around him.
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The cavs are shooting over 50% on shots he facilitates. They are shooting 29% on shots he doesn't. Shut the fuck up until you have a clue what you are talking about. Van Gundy said this is the worst offensive finals team he has ever seen, far worse than the 76ers team with Iverson. That article I posted listed how the Cavs have tried to run their offense through other players, or even less directly through Lebron, and how their shit just can't operate versus the Warrior's ability to switch without Lebron carrying a herculean load. I'm not saying become the dude's biggest fan, but if you post this kind of dumb horseshit you deserve to be called out for being the dumbfuck basketball fan you are. Lebron, love him or hate him, is a singular force that is basically making this a competitive series entirely on his own. Stop your fucking ignorance.
 
Drakurii

Drakurii

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Glad the person singing the National anthem could get gussied up in their best pink flip flops
 
Blitz

Blitz

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Tom Haberstroh on Twitter:

His '07 team was worse than this one. Also Irving played fantastically in Game 1, and they still lost (Cleveland, including LeBron... scored 2 fucking points in OT). This Golden State team hasn't exactly been "amazing" either, if they were as good as people made them out to be this series would be over.

The whole LeBron debate reminds me a ton of the Manning debate, amazing amazing players with still a little to desire when it matters most. LeBron will go down as a better player as Kobe, but like Shaq said, it'd be hard to take him over a guy like Kobe when the game is winding down.
 
C

Commander Vimeseh_sl

shitlord
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Comparing Kobe to LeBron in a favorable light is taboo on this board blitz. I'm sure slaythe, Gilg, and company will be along to slay you with data and loud opinions shortly.

Anyway, as a player in their primes I much prefer Kobe to bron bron
Mostly because he was MJ light.
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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Pretty much all late game and crunch time metrics favor LeBron over Kobe. It's all perception that Kobe is mister clutch.
 
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