NBA 2019-2020 Season: Kawhi Saved Us
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babo
Molten Core Raider
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I heard first half was looking bad. I only had time to watch the 2nd half right when marcus smart tied the game to 60. Then it was all flowers after that but i felt a little at piece if last night was their final game... I stayed away from Twitter too
Jozu
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Yea Heat first 5 seed to ever make it to the Finals. perfect storm for them, having to play in the bubble, they didnt have to deal with home court advantage the Celtics would have undoubtedly had. No way LeBron allows them to beat him though. This is going to impact his legacy perhaps more than any other series in his career.
If he loses, he will had lost SEVEN Finals. No matter what happens, that stat alone will dominate every other. Its almost like Tom brady. How close was he to losing 4 straight Super Bowls? If it wasnt for 1 yard line Malcom Butler interception he would have loss 3 in a row, and not for epic comeback against Falcons would have been 4. His legacy would have been tarnished. Instead he is the GOAT.
If LeBron wins, suddenly he has 4 titles in 10 trips, which is respectable. You combine the 4 rings along with the TEN finals appearences and you have a solid argument that he is the 2nd greatest player of all time. If he loses? He will never reach those heights and will be remembered as an all timer, but struggled in the FInals and isnt a true "winner".
If he loses, he will had lost SEVEN Finals. No matter what happens, that stat alone will dominate every other. Its almost like Tom brady. How close was he to losing 4 straight Super Bowls? If it wasnt for 1 yard line Malcom Butler interception he would have loss 3 in a row, and not for epic comeback against Falcons would have been 4. His legacy would have been tarnished. Instead he is the GOAT.
If LeBron wins, suddenly he has 4 titles in 10 trips, which is respectable. You combine the 4 rings along with the TEN finals appearences and you have a solid argument that he is the 2nd greatest player of all time. If he loses? He will never reach those heights and will be remembered as an all timer, but struggled in the FInals and isnt a true "winner".
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Brahma
Obi-Bro Kenobi-X
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Ya. Probably for the best.
www.espn.com
Doc out as Clips coach after surprising playoff exit
Doc Rivers has stepped down as coach of the Clippers in what chairman Steve Ballmer called a "mutual decision."
www.espn.com
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Derkon
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Ya. Probably for the best.
Doc out as Clips coach after surprising playoff exit
Doc Rivers has stepped down as coach of the Clippers in what chairman Steve Ballmer called a "mutual decision."
Whoa, didn't think Ballmer would do it.
DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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I hate this argument that finals losses is some huge knock. It's better to lose earlier? If some were first or second round losses, that improves his legacy? Get real.
Championships is all that matters.
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Sterling
El Presidente
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Yeah, finals lossing being somehow awful is weird. Like Jordan suddenly has a worse legacy if they had beaten the Pistons but lost in the finals? Shit's dumb.
Jozu
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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That makes no sense.
Championships matter, but also dont look at Finals appearances.
My argument cut both ways. My point being, getting to Finals is an impressive feat within itself. I give credit for the appearances.
But we are talking about LeBron here, not just any player. He has been to Finals so many times he is in a different category. So losing 7 finals for him would undoubtedly tarnish his legacy, esp losing to a team he left.
If he wins? It swings just as much in a positive direction. Im putting weight behind the accomplishment of making it there, not taking away from it.
Championships matter, but also dont look at Finals appearances.
My argument cut both ways. My point being, getting to Finals is an impressive feat within itself. I give credit for the appearances.
But we are talking about LeBron here, not just any player. He has been to Finals so many times he is in a different category. So losing 7 finals for him would undoubtedly tarnish his legacy, esp losing to a team he left.
If he wins? It swings just as much in a positive direction. Im putting weight behind the accomplishment of making it there, not taking away from it.
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DickTrickle
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So would his legacy be better if he only lost three finals but still has the same number of championships? Yes or no.
You can try to massage it how you want but this is what you said: "If he loses, he will had lost SEVEN Finals. No matter what happens, that stat alone will dominate every other. "
Only an imbecile would think losing earlier is ever better. Again, this is the argument you're making. You're talking about finals losses, not championships. If you want to say he's lesser than Kobe or Michael because of not having enough championships, then that's at least more reasonable.
"He will never reach those heights and will be remembered as an all timer, but struggled in the FInals and isnt a true "winner"."
I guess Dirk nowitzki is a much bigger loser and clutchless person. Same with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, etc. They're all even bigger choke artists because they didn't do nearly as much as LeBron did. They were all way bigger losers
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DickTrickle
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I mean, I believe that some people will think his legacy is tarnished for losing finals appearances versus losing in other rounds, but they're imbeciles
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DickTrickle
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All the people who didn't win a championship must have choked in their last game and failed to be a winner. Every win orgo home is a huge game no matter what round it takes place in
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zzeris
The Real Benny Johnson
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I hate to type this but Jozu has a valid argument. Second place is for losers. There is definitely a knock on athletes who 'can't get it done'. It's not fair but it's still how things work in all sports. Maybe if Lebron got things done working with less but let's not act like he's accomplished much (outside of what he did in 2006) without 1-2 other superstars in the wings. Look at this year's team! Obviously it's all Lebron carrying a team full of losers on his back to another championship run...except the team is fucking loaded. Two top 5 players and solid starters.
DickTrickle
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If second place is for losers, then isn't third place for even bigger losers? Isn't 5th place an even more massive loser than that? Or, at the very least, they're all losers on the same level?
If you truly believe that second place is for losers, then only championships matter. Not playoff appearances, not finals appearances, not games won, etc. Jozu is implicitly making the argument that it's better to have earlier losses than later losses if you don't win a championship. That is so illogically retarded.
if you want to make the claim that the finals are the bigger pressure moments and he choked more then... isn't it an even bigger choke to fail and lose when the pressure isn't on as much in the earlier rounds? And to lesser competition?
Also, how many teams have won in the past 15 years without at least two or three All-Stars? One?
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Kaines
Potato Supreme
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SAY HIS NAME!!!
(If you can spell it, but you did above, so I'm guessing you're good)
zzeris
The Real Benny Johnson
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I'm not saying that's my scale. It's the scale used by media, fans, etc. Why is MJ considered the best by most people? 6-0. Not 6-4, 7-3, whatever. I also think earlier losses is a stupid argument but saying that the narrative will be significantly different if he doesn't win this one? That's valid. You can't be second place so often, with your own 2-3 All-Stars, and it not affect your standing. That's all I'm saying. The rest is just Jozu talk.
I think this is possibly the best team Lebron has ever been on and in the best situation. That's how much having Davis there counts in a game where only 5 guys can play almost the whole game. It's nothing like other sports where it's more of a team effort. With COVID, both Davis and Lebron didn't have to wear their body down for 70+ games and they got a huge layoff to rest. You can use the 'need practice' argument but the best talent wins when practice is reduced. This year, he should obviously win. Two top 5 dudes in the entire game with no real flaws and just needing to play 15 games to get to the finals. To lose this finals would mean a lot.
Kaines
Potato Supreme
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The problem with Lebron losing this finals wouldn't be that he lost another Finals. It's WHO HE WOULD LOSE IT TO. The first EVER 5th seed to make it to the NBA Finals. If he loses this, it's on par with the Mavericks getting bounced in the first round by the 8th seed.
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DickTrickle
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Sure, I believe dumb media talking heads will think finals losses matter more, but that doesn't make it a valid argument.
I still would rank his heat teams above this Lakers team. I'm surprised that this Lakers team has been so good. On paper, I feel like they're worse than some other teams... But I guess it just fits together right. Davis definitely is the best player he's played with. Unlike someone like Kyrie Irving, he has a massive impact on both sides of the floor.
There's some validity to that, for sure. But they did have the advantage of not having to be disadvantaged by playing on other people's home courts. So the lower seeds this year had It a little easier.
Still, I tend to put my weight into playoff performances not regular season ones, so it's hard for me to say that the Celtics or Raptors were better than the heat or something like that. Maybe if they played 30 games it would show out that way but matchups matter a lot as does timing.
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