SuperNaught
Trakanon Raider
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- 1,403
New World
- Thread starter zero_name
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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Chersk
Trakanon Raider
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This is very much a PvP centric game.
Please let us shitlords have our sandboxes every now and then. There are a bazillion other theme parks with bumper rails for the PvE crowd to enjoy.
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Sandbox style game play does not mean PvP. I have no fucking idea where you got that from.
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GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
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There are SO many games with PvP or Survival though..
I dunno, I don't really need another PvP centric MMO personally. I want something that isn't fucking WoW that has GOOD story, raids, a PVP server AND a PvE server with flagging where I can play again. Wildstar was amazing while it lasted but the "HAAARDCORE!!!" aspect burned me the fuck out.
Another BDO style game? Honestly I don't mind PvP but if that is ALL there is really to do TO progress or REASON to progress...I'm just gunna stick with BDO since it's an interesting world.
Chersk
Trakanon Raider
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Sure sandbox can be lots of other things but when you’re talking MMO’s I believe it’s primarily a PvP oriented term.
Google “sandbox MMO” and look at the results.
Brahma
Obi-Bro Kenobi-X
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Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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- 10,434
A sandbox MMO:
- Modular roles rather than classes, you pick/build/spec a role (tank, heal, etc) with various skills/passives that you collect/gain (skill tree? open skills)
Example: You have 500 skills with pre-reqs in terms of stats, other skills, total power. You select a number of skills ("Knightly Prestance - gives +50 CHA, +7.5% aggro on all melee actions, requires 150 STR & Veteran Squire") put XP in them, ding, you have a new skill (passive or active). You can go deep to be a high-end tank, or wide to adjust to groups ("ok, I'll heal, let me reorganize my skill bar").
- No quests, or very few long-term quests, meaning you can do whatever, including going to help guildmates at the other end of the world and not lose out on XP/gear/gold/rep/whatever.
Example: you don't have quests at all. The game simply displays your 5 most advanced achievements as a suggestion of what to do ("Dungeon Janitor - kill 37/50 different dungeon bosses" "Have Jboots, will Travel - discover 28/35 Inns"), but you can ignore some if you really don't care about them.
- No instances, a very large (procedurally generated?) world
- Multiple interlocking factions with progression/regression and zero barriers to interacting with other players
- Multiple paths to gear acquisition (crafting, random gear drop, named loot tables, AH, faction vendors, etc)
- Modular roles rather than classes, you pick/build/spec a role (tank, heal, etc) with various skills/passives that you collect/gain (skill tree? open skills)
Example: You have 500 skills with pre-reqs in terms of stats, other skills, total power. You select a number of skills ("Knightly Prestance - gives +50 CHA, +7.5% aggro on all melee actions, requires 150 STR & Veteran Squire") put XP in them, ding, you have a new skill (passive or active). You can go deep to be a high-end tank, or wide to adjust to groups ("ok, I'll heal, let me reorganize my skill bar").
- No quests, or very few long-term quests, meaning you can do whatever, including going to help guildmates at the other end of the world and not lose out on XP/gear/gold/rep/whatever.
Example: you don't have quests at all. The game simply displays your 5 most advanced achievements as a suggestion of what to do ("Dungeon Janitor - kill 37/50 different dungeon bosses" "Have Jboots, will Travel - discover 28/35 Inns"), but you can ignore some if you really don't care about them.
- No instances, a very large (procedurally generated?) world
- Multiple interlocking factions with progression/regression and zero barriers to interacting with other players
- Multiple paths to gear acquisition (crafting, random gear drop, named loot tables, AH, faction vendors, etc)
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
- 7,547
- 11,831
Oh great, PvP vs PvE debates where both sides base their perspectives on the faulty premise an interactive, online game should (or even could) attempt to deliver an experience precise enough to so easily define and everyone argues about two trees in the middle of a forest.
Early games in the genre like EQ were PvP games because they gave players control and allowed competition in the world, it's just some servers allowed the competition and control players had to extend to being able to kill other players, but make no mistake everything you did in EQ was a form of player vs player, and it was engaging because it delivered unpredictable experiences more often.
WoW was generally not a PvP game, even when they allowed you to kill other players, because they took control and competition from the players to delivering a more predictable experience, which was less engaging.
Some people liked the more engaging, unpredictable experience, and others liked the less engaging, predictable experience, but I don't think it's debatable which was more engaging, but it's a more complicated discussion, so most people just fall back to the easier PvP vs PvE talking points.
There is an argument to be had over whether or not they should allow players to kill other players, but for my money the real question is will they deliver a world that gives players control and allows for competition and is more engaging and enjoyed by people who want an unpredictable experience. Or will they follow the model that has become the standard where the devs try to maintain control and reduce competition in an effort to produce a predictable experience.
The fact it's a sandbox and players are killing each other excites people like me who want the unpredictable experience and hope the devs can deliver a world where players have control and competition is allowed, because then everything you do is PvP whether you're killing another player or not. Of course, there are people out there that are worried by competition and don't want control (or others to have it), as they prefer a predictable experience and will beg the devs to take away control and limit competition and try to ruin this game because they're filthy casuals and/or whiny carebears (and probably socialists but I'll save that for the politics thread).
Early games in the genre like EQ were PvP games because they gave players control and allowed competition in the world, it's just some servers allowed the competition and control players had to extend to being able to kill other players, but make no mistake everything you did in EQ was a form of player vs player, and it was engaging because it delivered unpredictable experiences more often.
WoW was generally not a PvP game, even when they allowed you to kill other players, because they took control and competition from the players to delivering a more predictable experience, which was less engaging.
Some people liked the more engaging, unpredictable experience, and others liked the less engaging, predictable experience, but I don't think it's debatable which was more engaging, but it's a more complicated discussion, so most people just fall back to the easier PvP vs PvE talking points.
There is an argument to be had over whether or not they should allow players to kill other players, but for my money the real question is will they deliver a world that gives players control and allows for competition and is more engaging and enjoyed by people who want an unpredictable experience. Or will they follow the model that has become the standard where the devs try to maintain control and reduce competition in an effort to produce a predictable experience.
The fact it's a sandbox and players are killing each other excites people like me who want the unpredictable experience and hope the devs can deliver a world where players have control and competition is allowed, because then everything you do is PvP whether you're killing another player or not. Of course, there are people out there that are worried by competition and don't want control (or others to have it), as they prefer a predictable experience and will beg the devs to take away control and limit competition and try to ruin this game because they're filthy casuals and/or whiny carebears (and probably socialists but I'll save that for the politics thread).
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Give me good PVP with some decent PvE encounters and I am happy. No reason why you can't have a bit of both
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