New World

Lunis said:

Another survival game calling itself an MMO? Trimming bushes for endless hours, building a semi-useful structure, then PvPing with a handful of combat skills doesn't get my dick hard.

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Yes basically, feels like Conan which the people im playing with love because were bullies but I dont really like it.

Blitz Short fights so far but its Alpha and early

I'm hoping for Shadowbane type of experience. Am I dillussional?

No, it could be, but the criminal system / pvp system needs a lot of work. Shadowbane vet players are enjoying it though. The problem is you have testers that want to test / play a pvp mmo survival game yet on the alpha boards some of them fucking complain left and right that there is pvp in a pvp game when they lose their precious little pixel loot. I just dont get it....it's like the pussifacation of the mmorpg pvp genre.

Penance said:

I'm hoping for Shadowbane type of experience. Am I dillussional?

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Barab said:

The problem is you have testers that want to test / play a pvp mmo survival game yet on the alpha boards some of them fucking complain left and right that there is pvp in a pvp game when they lose their precious little pixel loot. I just dont get it....it's like the pussifacation of the mmorpg pvp genre.

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Tmac said:

This game will, without a doubt, be more polished than Shadowbane, haha.

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SB.exe was my greatest ally against the hordes of Furies.

Problem with PvP games is PvP players cant handle losing. Lose your town in Shadowbane or Darkfall and suddenly 50%+ of your guild quits.

Yea people quit when they lose unless almost nothing is lost and they can get right back in.

Problem is and always has been studios thinking they'll finally crack the code to design and engineer and control PvP within an MMO in a new and profound way that revolutionizes the PvP-centric genre. It never works. Instead, you just get over-design that begins an endless resource drain that creates neither a good PvP game nor a good MMO. If they don't want to just have a lobby/arena style slap fight, they're gonna have to focus on delivering an engaging world. If they want something better than just copying GW2 and the trend of pretty, but super shallow worlds, they're gonna have to focus on delivering an engaging world.

Basically, the only way I see this game going anywhere is if they build an interesting world with challenging content and meaningful PvE and then people will have a stake in the world and a natural reason to PvP. But, they just seem to think they can solve every PvP issue and make PvP more universally interesting in an open world setting by simply designing and re-designing and over-designing PvP specific elements. PvP isn't something that needs solved, it's something that needs turned on and then tweaked a little, not designed to the nth degree or suffocated by a ton of game mechanics.

Remember in grade school when two kids had beef and other kids would push them into each other until they fought? That's what I fear this game will feel like. Where you have no reason to care who the other players are or what they're doing, you just fight them because the game says you should. Or you run around aimlessly like that video a few posts back.

Good news, though, people are saying good things about their game engine, and that's probably all they really cared about anyhow.

World building PVP games need seasons. It's as simple as that.

Byr said:

Problem with PvP games is PvP players cant handle losing. Lose your town in Shadowbane or Darkfall and suddenly 50%+ of your guild quits.

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So much truth here. I'm a big PvP fan and have played them all. Nearly every game run into two major issues... i'm losing because of __________________ so it's needs to change or I'm not going to participate because of _________________ (example: lose my title, drop loot, someone might see me, maybe winning in this game is all I have in life, etc.)

It's awful sometimes.... very few people will suck it up, rally their friends (or walk away and get better skill/gear), and come back and compete. Also, sometimes people are just better. They devote an unreal amount of time, have solid equipment, and run around with friends. So, just deal.

To alleviate these issues, in my opinion, is to make PvP more than just kills. Now this has been attempted in the past but ultimately, controlling this objective or that zone really has no bearing on the game itself.

I'll use EQ as an example. Every zone and/or city should have value such as quest hubs, bind locations, dungeon acmes, unique harvesting nodes etc. If I decide to take over Commonlands then my faction gets EC tunnels, inns and merchants, guards, etc. If I take Lavastorm, I get the druid ring and access to Sol A/B and ultimately Naggy. Freeport and all their associated benefits, tradeskills, housing, boat access, class trainers, etc. However, we know that one side or guild would dominate and no one would do anything to oppose the controlling faction. They would just lay down, complain, and change servers so it would never really work. The only true competitive spirit in MMO's are a few guilds that rival raid targets but with more modern MMO's, you really don't have contested targets.

It comes down to committing to a vision but it's risky. I don't think the people have the heart for it and maybe for good reason but that's what I want. I want meaningful PvP that forces a side or faction to come together. I want to get my butt kicked sometimes. I want to have to roam the back allies until i'm either individually better or my faction has a bigger and better plan. I think the new Lord of the Rings MMO could make something like this happen. I would love to fight for Gondor or other points of interest against evil factions such as trolls, ogres, wraiths, maybe even even dwarves, humans, or elves... i'm sure they could make something work where we fight for Middle Earth but it's just not going to happen.

PvP players are what kill PvP mmos. The good players and bandwagoners get organized and terrorize the casuals and solo players. Which is to be expected. But the casuals and solo players don't care about what's expected, and they don't have any interest in getting organized or good. So they quit. Which leaves the organized players with nobody to terrorize, so they quit. And it all spirals down from there fairly quickly.

And if the game tech isn't perfect then you have various hackers and bots to add to the mix. Which only increases the exodus from the game.

So far nobody has really figured out a good solution to these problems. But I'm glad they keep trying. Eventually someone will figure it out and release a good pvp mmo with legs. Just hope it happens in my lifetime.

I agree that PVE needs to be big in a PVP game in order for it to have longevity. Not necessarily WOW raids and shit like that (but maybe if they can pull it off), but there needs to be resources exclusive to certain region to fight over. Those resources need to be part of multiple parallel progression paths and they can include but are not limited to raids/dungeons, crafting, skills/mobs, quests, exploration goals (jumping puzzles and mini games), political notoriety (maybe you capture a huge mountain and build a castle on top of it), or political prestige (ladder rankings for certain things and whatnot) and many other things. PVP for the sake of PVP never tends to work in MMO. SB was great because you had to fight over skills in certain regions (I think commander skill only spawned in the northern snow area and maybe one other place). Even DAoC had Darknessfalls, GW2 had prestige in the form of sort of ladder ranking. Arena sorta stuff needs to be added for the casuals where they can do progression on a parallel system other then World stuff (GW2 actually did this pretty well imo).

I didn't realize this game was going to be fantasy. I thought it was just some historical setting. This thing sounds so potentially amazing. I'm gonna need to pretend it doesn't exist, so when it crashes and burns I won't give a damn.

Agraza said:

I didn't realize this game was going to be fantasy. I thought it was just some historical setting. This thing sounds so potentially amazing. I'm gonna need to pretend it doesn't exist, so when it crashes and burns I won't give a damn.

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You can't break MMO tradition. This is what we do. We have to get hyped about something and then lose all hope only to get hyped again. Fortunately we have more choices now days instead of being forced to live with Mark Jacobs, Smed / Ponytail, etc.