NFL 2016 - <whatever Tony is doing>

Merrith

Merrith

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Itlan said:
I'm glad we can agree on this part. The game has certainly evolved, but it's not like Romo is propped up because of the times - he would've been an elite QB in any era.
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Disagree on "elite". Romo has only topped 100 passer rating twice in his career, to use an extreme outlier like his one year he had a 113 rating to measure him against his contemporaries is lazy. He'd have been a very good quarterback in any era, with questions about how he performs when it matters. Which is basically what he is.
 
moontayle

moontayle

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Merrith said:
Disagree on "elite". Romo has only topped 100 passer rating twice in his career, to use an extreme outlier like his one year he had a 113 rating to measure him against his contemporaries is lazy. He'd have been a very good quarterback in any era, with questions about how he performs when it matters. Which is basically what he is.
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Romo up and put that team on his back successfully far more times than he failed. He's also been consistently good through the years. The only thing missing is post-season success. At that point though, it really becomes how much better the overall team is.
 
Ambiturner

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Merrith said:
Disagree on "elite". Romo has only topped 100 passer rating twice in his career, to use an extreme outlier like his one year he had a 113 rating to measure him against his contemporaries is lazy. He'd have been a very good quarterback in any era, with questions about how he performs when it matters. Which is basically what he is.
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What? His career passer rating is 3rd highest of all time. His career 4th quarter passer rating is 1st all time.

The narrative that you keep pushing that he doesn't perform "when it matters" just doesn't hold up. Especially when you arbitrarily choose "when it matters" to only apply to games he loses and completely ignore all the games he wins.
 
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moontayle

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Define "games that matter". If it's limited to Super Bowls, then no. Playoff games? He's won a couple. How about enough regular season games to qualify for the playoffs? He's done that.

The NFL has so few games that every one of them matters really. Cowboys have a won more games than they've lost with Romo at the helm and he's never played in a game that didn't matter if you're strictly talking about the ability to make the playoffs.
 
Ameraves

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I'm so glad we have circled back to the arguments about how great Romo is or is not. It has been a while since we have been over this
 
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jooka

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Alright everybody, the new topic is how does Kaep get that helmet on with that fro.
 
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moontayle

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I'm of the mind that the fro is a concussion prevention mechanism. That plus helmet equals better than zero chance of not becoming a retard when you get dropped. It's too bad he's already a retard and it won't help anymore.
 
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Merrith

Merrith

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Ambiturner said:
What? His career passer rating is 3rd highest of all time. His career 4th quarter passer rating is 1st all time.

The narrative that you keep pushing that he doesn't perform "when it matters" just doesn't hold up. Especially when you arbitrarily choose "when it matters" to only apply to games he loses and completely ignore all the games he wins.
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And I'm sure it'll hold up as the 3rd best all time as passer stats continue to explode. When we're getting to the point where cracking 100 passer rating in a year barely gets you into the top 10, he's going to get pushed further down that list. Guys getting in at the ground floor are really getting boosts to their numbers. Passer efficiency rating arguably more than any. Completion %'s are through the roof, Picks overall are way down, TD passes up.

Btw, to make a comparison, Romo still trails Drew Bledsoe in career TD passes (by only 4 or 5) and career passing yards (by around 10k).

He's a very good QB overall, and would be in any era. It's not unfair to say though that his stats have been boosted by the era he's played, or look at his record in win or go home games (playoff games, or elimination games to get into the playoffs). Even his stats in those games weren't good overall until their most recent playoff run when he evened it out a little (he had a very good 2 games their last playoff appearance, it should be noted).
 
Merrith

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Also forgot to mention, Bledsoe has a 4-3 career record in the playoffs, and won his last game (when Brady came on in relief, though Bledsoe was the only QB in the game to throw a TD).

Edit: Sorry, Bledsoe actually came on in relief that game for Brady.
 
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moontayle

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I think what kills me is that there's only so much one person can do. Romo can't play defense, or will his receivers to haul in easy catches (looking at you Patrick Crayton) or any of the other tiny things that occur in the course of a game that can influence an outcome. He can't force his running back to hold the ball better in what could have been a sure TD, or force the NFL to figure out what constitutes a catch.

So they finally get a team around him worth having and shit just goes sideways with a preseason injury of all things, plus his first backup goes out wit a broken ankle and then his second backup, a rookie no less, is playing very well and all of a sudden people want to just toss him aside. Dude just can't catch a break that doesn't involve bones.
 
Ambiturner

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Merrith said:
And I'm sure it'll hold up as the 3rd best all time as passer stats continue to explode. When we're getting to the point where cracking 100 passer rating in a year barely gets you into the top 10, he's going to get pushed further down that list. Guys getting in at the ground floor are really getting boosts to their numbers. Passer efficiency rating arguably more than any. Completion %'s are through the roof, Picks overall are way down, TD passes up.

Btw, to make a comparison, Romo still trails Drew Bledsoe in career TD passes (by only 4 or 5) and career passing yards (by around 10k).

He's a very good QB overall, and would be in any era. It's not unfair to say though that his stats have been boosted by the era he's played, or look at his record in win or go home games (playoff games, or elimination games to get into the playoffs). Even his stats in those games weren't good overall until their most recent playoff run when he evened it out a little (he had a very good 2 games their last playoff appearance, it should be noted).
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Career totals aren't that great of a stat to go by. Bledsoe does have about 10k yards and a few more TDs, but he also played in about 60 more games.
 
Merrith

Merrith

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Ambiturner said:
Career totals aren't that great of a stat to go by. Bledsoe does have about 10k yards and a few more TDs, but he also played in about 60 more games.
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60 more games, but only 2 more years than Romo in the league (that's not counting this year)? Staying healthy enough to play is part of the game. Even if Dak hadn't emerged as the future (and potentially present) QB for Dallas, I didn't see Romo starting 60 more games (almost 4 more full years).
 
zombiewizardhawk

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Postseason Quarterback Win/Loss Records | The Football Database

Yeah, Romo has won a literal couple playoff games. Quarterbacks who have more playoff wins than Romo include: Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Philip Rivers, Colin Krappernick, Butt Fumbler, and everyone above these guys on the list have massively more playoff appearances to go with their higher number of wins too. He's also tied with Alex Smith at two wins but Alex Smith has 1 less loss.

It must just be that the Cowboys team has sucked for all these years they've had superstar elite quarterback Tony Romo who just couldn't quite carry them by himself.
 
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1987

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It seems to me that there should be a career stat for value above replacement. I know that some sites create annual numbers. But is there a site that runs comparisons for a QB for the years they played compared to what the rest of the league did in that same timeframe. Obviously rules, and play styles change. So the only way to compare players historically seems to be how much better or worse they were than their counterparts.

Romo is a good example. He has great career numbers. But he, regardless of toughness, will always have a durability question mark. And whether or not it's fair, or even all on him, he has a few of the great all time "clutch-moment" breakdowns. Overall consistency doesnt matter in the face of being famous, or at least having the most visceral memories be for blunders.

That being said, Romo getting a superbowl would change the ENTIRETY of the perspective around him. People said the same thing about Manning until '06. And then it started again after he couldnt get another ring for a number of years. And Romo is no Peyton.
 
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