Merrith
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Best career achieves: Brady
When Rodgers plays at his max level, I've not seen anyone better at QB. Simple enough?
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NFL 2018 - 2019 -- Watch America's favorite sport wither away and die
- Thread starter pharmakos
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Best career achieves: Brady
When Rodgers plays at his max level, I've not seen anyone better at QB. Simple enough?
Genjiro
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Makes more sense, I refer to the goat as the best to ever play. IE Rodgers. Achievements is in large part a result of others around you. In the end it is still a team thing, coaching thing, front office thing all together.
Honest question. Would people be calling Brady the goat if Viniateri had missed both kicks that won 2 SB's at the final second for the Pats? Probably not. Was he instrumental in their success? Sure. Still, lot of guys going to the Hall on those teams which is as much of a credit to Kraft and Bellichick as Brady imo.
Honest question. Would people be calling Brady the goat if Viniateri had missed both kicks that won 2 SB's at the final second for the Pats? Probably not. Was he instrumental in their success? Sure. Still, lot of guys going to the Hall on those teams which is as much of a credit to Kraft and Bellichick as Brady imo.
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Merrith
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On the viniateri kicks...even if he missed either or both, those games would have just gone to OT, where Brady potentially could have won them anyways. Also he's handed his defense leads with under 5 minutes to go twice that resulted in losses in the Super Bowl. He could have won a couple more in those cases.
I think when Rodgers is at his best he is the best to ever play the position. I don't think his career right now says greatest football player ever. Brady's career does. I think he's been consistently great more than Rodgers as well. I can agree that coaching and what he has around him probably plays a good bit into that, but Brady still manages to do it year after year and into his 40's now is a testament to how much he factors into it himself, too. I do wish we could see what would have happened if the two of them swapped teams/coaches.
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Sterling
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Yeah if you swap their teams I'm sure Rodgers would have had a ton more success. Swap Montana and Marino and Montana and Marino has a bunch of rings and Montana gets to throw to OJ McDuffy and hand the ball off to Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Sammy Smith.
Genjiro
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Again, I don't think "greatest football player ever" has anything to do with team success. There are 21 other guys + special teams. Football moreso than any other sport relies on your teammates for accolades. At least in baseball and basketball you play both offense and defense but in football the other side of the ball is completely out of your hands. Sure he handed his team two leads he also had super bowl wins where he threw for less than 150 and was carried by those same defenses with guys like Ty Law, Vince Wilfork, Bruschi, Vrabel, Seymour etc etc etc. Those defenses had just as much to do with those rings.
Barry Sanders might have been the best football player to ever lace them up but was stuck with chumps like Scott Mitchell. Does that mean Roger Craig or Franco Harris were better? Fuck no.
Barry Sanders might have been the best football player to ever lace them up but was stuck with chumps like Scott Mitchell. Does that mean Roger Craig or Franco Harris were better? Fuck no.
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Brahma
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Always comes down to me...who do I want leading my team on that last drive for a SB win. Brady > Montana > Elway.
Now for some fucked up shit. Just burn this fucker. Fuckin a 12 year old relative...caught by wife.
Former Falcons RB Justin Crawford Arrested on Incest, Sodomy, Enticement Charges
Ex-College Football Star Justin Crawford Arrested for Incest, Sodomy with 12-Year-Old
Now for some fucked up shit. Just burn this fucker. Fuckin a 12 year old relative...caught by wife.
Former Falcons RB Justin Crawford Arrested on Incest, Sodomy, Enticement Charges
Ex-College Football Star Justin Crawford Arrested for Incest, Sodomy with 12-Year-Old
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Ambiturner
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Genjiro
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In his four Super Bowls, Montana completed 83 of 122 passes for 1,142 yards and 11 touchdowns with no interceptions, earning him a passer rating of 127.8. Montana led his team to victory in each game, and was the first player ever to win three Super Bowl MVP awards. Montana also held the record for most Super Bowl pass completions (83) and still holds the record for pass attempts (122) without throwing an interception.
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Merrith
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This is why I was stuck on Montana still being the greatest for a long time. His impeccable record in Super Bowls, and his play in the playoffs and in the SB's.
Sure, Brady had some good defenses. You mentioned Bruschi, I remember in their first loss to the Giants after Brady hit Moss in the end zone to put them up 4 with under 3 minutes to go, they had a shot of Bruschi and Seau on the sideline pumping each other up for the upcoming drive. Kind of sad in retrospect with what happened to Seau after his career, and the fact they didn't come through and he never won a ring. Whether you think Brady was "carried" to a win or two back in the early 2000's, his 3 SB losses have him handing his D leads with under 5 minutes to go, and another in which he threw for 500 yards and 3 TD's to keep them in the game b/c his defense was so bad. It goes both ways. At some point after 5 wins and 8 appearances, I just had to give him the nod.
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Chanur
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Pretty cool but all before the cap era when you could buy championships.
The Brady/Belichick Patriots dynasty is the greatest in sports history I hate to admit.
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Merrith
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Honestly...I don't know. Literally aside from Philly managing to force that fumble last year, I would have bet my life Brady would have driven them down for go ahead TD. If they'd had more time where they didn't have to hail mary it I would have bet he would have driven them down for TD and 2 point conversion to tie at the very end. I'm sure Andy Reid knew right away as Hill ran towards the end zone and he was leaving Brady 3 minutes and 3 timeouts he was going to get to watch a leisurely stroll down the field for a short field goal and never see the ball again until he sees the Pats in the playoffs later this year.
I'd take either of the two. If I had to settle for Rodgers instead, I would like my chances then, too.
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"Brady is the GOAT" and "Belichick is the main factor" don't have to be exclusive. But there is no way you can look at that situation logically and not realize Belichick is the main factor for that teams success. QB is extremely important, but the guy is responsible for roster decisions, talent acquisition, schemes etc.
Ambiturner
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Such a ridiculous argument when people base their opinions on completely narrow and unrealistic scenarios.
Rodgers>Brady. There's no way Matt Cassell takes any Packers team to 11-5
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Genjiro
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Oh please, the fucking Patriots got to walk into the playoffs every year. Literally 0 competition in their own division since what, the Bills in the early 90s? Gtfo. Backup QBs who were shit have an unreal winning record on those teams with Brady out. Its Kraft/Bellichick. Bradys a good QB, Rodgers would probably have won a SB every year with those teams though.
Genjiro
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I agree AR is the best, hes never been on the same kinds of teams. I was simply talking Montana vs Brady.
Anyways, you can list off the HoF players Brady has played with on both sides of the ball vs what Rodgers has played with or likely will ever play with. I mean, is there 1 HoF Rodgers has played with for any extended amount of time in Green bay? Julius Peppers for a couple of years is all I can think of.
DickTrickle
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In Matt Cassell's sad defense, he did have a 27/7 TD/INT season in Kansas City that resulted in a 10-6 record and a Pro Bowl berth. His best receiver there was Dwayne Bowe. So, I'm not sure you can say he was a total turd that Belicheck polished.
Then again, his 2008 NE season stats were very similar to Brady's first six or so years in the league.
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Fight
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The way I like to settle these all-time, best of the best arguments is to have a theoretical draft.
Knowing every guys skill and accomplishments, who is your #1 draft pick to have them from the start of their careers to the conclusion? Yes, longevity and health matters just as much as peak skill. So does the ability to step up in the clutch. The intangibles count the same way accumulation of career stats do.
Who is the guy you take with your #1 pick, with team success over the course of their career being your number one priority?
I think I trust Aaron Rogers the most to take him with my #1 pick.
Brady is the all-time best, but what if he ends up on a Bill Belichick'less Browns team for his entire career? If either Rogers or Brady ends up on the Browns for their entire career, who do we look back and say, "Man the Browns suck, but you know Brady/Rogers was pretty good". I will take Rogers in that scenario.
Knowing every guys skill and accomplishments, who is your #1 draft pick to have them from the start of their careers to the conclusion? Yes, longevity and health matters just as much as peak skill. So does the ability to step up in the clutch. The intangibles count the same way accumulation of career stats do.
Who is the guy you take with your #1 pick, with team success over the course of their career being your number one priority?
I think I trust Aaron Rogers the most to take him with my #1 pick.
Brady is the all-time best, but what if he ends up on a Bill Belichick'less Browns team for his entire career? If either Rogers or Brady ends up on the Browns for their entire career, who do we look back and say, "Man the Browns suck, but you know Brady/Rogers was pretty good". I will take Rogers in that scenario.
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