NFL 2018 - 2019 -- Watch America's favorite sport wither away and die

Merrith · Nov 2, 2018

Chanur said:
It's almost like RB's are easily replaceable and largely a product of their front line and QB quality.

Mostly, I agree. Although I think you need a certain level of RB for this to be true. Just look at what having Peterson has done for the Redskins rushing offense. Night and day.

Chanur · Nov 2, 2018

Merrith said:
Mostly, I agree. Although I think you need a certain level of RB for this to be true. Just look at what having Peterson has done for the Redskins rushing offense. Night and day.

The Redskins success is not about its offense but its front 7.

pharmakos · Nov 2, 2018

Re: OL and QB make the RB

Kerryon Johnson is doing SO MUCH better for the Lions that I don't think the single OL change from last year explains it all.

Yeah, OL often is only as strong as it's weakest link, but Travis Swanson wasn't THAT bad.

Blitz · Nov 2, 2018

Merrith said:
Mostly, I agree. Although I think you need a certain level of RB for this to be true. Just look at what having Peterson has done for the Redskins rushing offense. Night and day.

100%. There is definitely still some value to having a monster RB, even if it's diminished compared to yesteryear.

The point I was getting at, was as good as Bell is, who doesn't put up big numbers in the current Steelers offense? Certainly some inflation with the pace and the way they spread out the offense.

Chanur · Nov 2, 2018

pharmakos said:
Re: OL and QB make the RB

Kerryon Johnson is doing SO MUCH better for the Lions that I don't think the single OL change from last year explains it all.

Yeah, OL often is only as strong as it's weakest link, but Travis Swanson wasn't THAT bad.

Lions had several upgrades to the offensive line this year. Lions also have a gunslinger quarter back and have been a pass first team for years. This forces teams to keep pass coverage and not stack the box. This lets teams chew up 3-5 yard runs. Now certainly some RB's are better than others but the difference between them is not that large.

Ambiturner · Nov 2, 2018

Chanur said:
The Redskins success is not about its offense but its front 7.

True, that Oline is really underrated

pharmakos · Nov 2, 2018

Chanur said:
Lions had several upgrades to the offensive line this year.

Literally only one change, Frank Ragnow instead of Travis Swanson.

2017 Detroit Lions Starters, Roster, & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com
2018 Detroit Lions Starters, Roster, & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Chanur said:
Lions also have a gunslinger quarter back and have been a pass first team for years. This forces teams to keep pass coverage and not stack the box. This lets teams chew up 3-5 yard runs. Now certainly some RB's are better than others but the difference between them is not that large.

That's been true for a long time tho, so it doesn't explain the huge change this year...

Chanur · Nov 2, 2018

pharmakos said:
Literally only one change, Frank Ragnow instead of Travis Swanson.

I've not watched much of the Lions games but didnt you get Decker back? You also drafted Ragnow. Thats two significant changes over last year. So half of your starting 5.

In addition there has been a lot of changes to the line since 2016. It all appears to be gelling.

pharmakos · Nov 2, 2018

Chanur said:
I've not watched much of the Lions games but didnt you get Decker back? You also drafted Ragnow. Thats two significant changes over last year. So half of your starting 5.

In addition there has been a lot of changes to the line since 2016. It all appears to be gelling.

See my edit.

Injuries were an issue last year, there is that, but otherwise the starting 5 only has one difference.

pharmakos · Nov 2, 2018

If you were to stick Ameer Abdullah in the backfield instead of Kerryon Johnson this year, he wouldn't be averaging anywhere near Johnson's 6 yards per carry so far this year, I guarantee it...

Chanur · Nov 2, 2018

pharmakos said:
See my edit.

Injuries were an issue last year, there is that, but otherwise the starting 5 only has one difference.

Yes but an entirely new line since 2016 basically right?

pharmakos · Nov 2, 2018

Chanur said:
Yes but an entirely new line since 2016 basically right?

Yeah, just one carryover from 2016, so if we forget about 2017 or the 2018 snaps with RBs other than Johnson then okay.

Ultimately I'd say you need a good OL AND a good RB. The argument in the last couple pages seems to be that RB barely matters if you've got a good OL and QB, and I just don't think that's true. Maybe that's not the actual claim, but that's what I'm arguing against.

Chanur · Nov 2, 2018

No the argument is an average RB is worth 80% of a great one at a third to half the price.

The NFL clearly agrees too.

zzeris · Nov 2, 2018

Chanur said:
No the argument is an average RB is worth 80% of a great one at a third to half the price.

The NFL clearly agrees too.

Obviously wrong. It's at best 79% lol

Sterling · Nov 2, 2018

Good pass catching RBs are on the upswing. Feels like all of the best teams have one. That said obviously in the Salary Cap era all the best teams have players that are significantly underpaid.

Genjiro · Nov 2, 2018

Conner is on pace to smash Bells numbers from last year. Its more about the scheme and what you have around you. In Bells case, he has had great players at every position on offense practically except maybe TE and RT. You'd be hard pressed to give a RB a better situation, he will find out the hard way once some shit team with no OL signs him to an 18m/y contract and regrets the next 4 years.

pharmakos · Nov 2, 2018

Chanur said:
No the argument is an average RB is worth 80% of a great one at a third to half the price.

The NFL clearly agrees too.

Okay yeah, that's definitely true. Probably true for just about every position in the game, seems like most teams that go far in the playoffs are full of "second-tier" players, while most teams with A-listers end up mediocre overall since they have to make sacrifices elsewhere to stay under salary cap.

Edit -- yeah didn't keep reading before responding, what Sterling said^.

DickTrickle · Nov 2, 2018

I love the Gruden era so far. Let's hope he goes the full ten years. The new Browns!

Merrith · Nov 2, 2018

Chanur said:
The Redskins success is not about its offense but its front 7.

Overall record wise this is absolutely true. But I'm talking about the rushing offense in general. Our offense as a whole is so much worse, yet the rushing offense is FAR more successful. The difference between having Rob Kelley or Perine versus a true elite level back (if not elite physical skills anymore because of age) in Peterson is just night and day.

Merrith · Nov 2, 2018

Chanur said:
No the argument is an average RB is worth 80% of a great one at a third to half the price.

The NFL clearly agrees too.

It depends. I don't think Connor is an average RB. I think he's above average to very good...and I think he's worth 90-95% of what Bell's max would be in the same situation for that much cheaper of a price.

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