NVidia GeForce RTX 40x0 cards - x2 the power consumption, x2 the performance

Mist · Apr 12, 2023

Leadsalad said:
Oh good, the 4070 is $100 less than the 3080 and 4% faster...

Mid range is saved!

And 120W less, which is kind of a big deal from a total cost of ownership standpoint.

And it's probably closer to 150W because my 3080 FE would routinely spike up to almost 350W if I didn't go out of my way to try to limit it in some way.

Leadsalad · Apr 13, 2023

It's still an issue of it's going to be a $650+ card so that the AIBs can actually make a profit on the thing. And as a % of change in pricing from the generation it was supposed to replace, it's not a big enough discount for previous gen performance at nearly the same pricepoint.

But we were kind of headed that way during 2070

2070 was 30% more expensive than the previous gen mid-range, 30% cheaper than the current top end.
2070 performed 30% better than the previous mid-range and 10% better than the previous top end.

Now we've got a card that costs $600/$700 = 15% less than the previous top end (I'm ignoring the 90 series) and performs maybe 5%-10% better. But I guess it does purportedly cost half of what a 4080 costs (an actual :honkler:

card).

spronk · Apr 29, 2023

Intel posts biggest quarterly loss in company history as processor sales plunge

Intel isn't in great shape right now. The tech giant's Q1 2023 revenues fell 36 percent year-over-year to $11.7 billion – the largest drop recorded by the...

www.techspot.com

Intel believes it can become a major player in the discrete GPU market and has laid out an aggressive roadmap for 2nd and 3rd-gen Arc GPUs, codenamed Battlemage and Celestial. So far it has only managed to capture six percent of the global market for laptop and desktop GPUs, which is a good start but not great for the bottom line. Intel fellow Tom Petersen earlier this year confirmed the company is sacrificing profit margins to grow market share, while the GPU division burned at least $3.5 billion between Q1 2021 and its recent reorganization in Q4 2022.

crazy how much money they are burning on what seems like the wrong market, instead of going after a truly next gen mobile CPU

Brahma · Apr 29, 2023

spronk said:
Intel posts biggest quarterly loss in company history as processor sales plunge

Intel isn't in great shape right now. The tech giant's Q1 2023 revenues fell 36 percent year-over-year to $11.7 billion – the largest drop recorded by the...

www.techspot.com

Intel believes it can become a major player in the discrete GPU market and has laid out an aggressive roadmap for 2nd and 3rd-gen Arc GPUs, codenamed Battlemage and Celestial. So far it has only managed to capture six percent of the global market for laptop and desktop GPUs, which is a good start but not great for the bottom line. Intel fellow Tom Petersen earlier this year confirmed the company is sacrificing profit margins to grow market share, while the GPU division burned at least $3.5 billion between Q1 2021 and its recent reorganization in Q4 2022.

crazy how much money they are burning on what seems like the wrong market, instead of going after a truly next gen mobile CPU

I disagree. They have made some huge strides on their GPU in the last few months. In a few years they will probably be neck and neck with AMD and Nvidia as far as performance. If ANY big tech company can make that work, it's Intel.

DickTrickle · Apr 29, 2023

We should all hope they succeed.

spronk · Apr 29, 2023

Brahma said:
I disagree. They have made some huge strides on their GPU in the last few months. In a few years they will probably be neck and neck with AMD and Nvidia as far as performance. If ANY big tech company can make that work, it's Intel.

end of the day though which is guaranteed to grow like gangbusters over the next 20 years, gaming GPUs or mobile CPU/GPUs? If I was a betting man I wouldn't bet on gaming GPUs doubling in a decade but thats an easy bet for mobile.

Plus GPUs are insanely more complicated now whereas maybe you could do something wild in mobile with power or batteries to make a generational leap, its unlikely you can do that in gaming GPU. GPU will basically be just "this is 2x faster!" and thats best case scenario, whereas a mobile CPU + screen combo that runs for say 7 days on a charge would be a game changer, or some sort of new eInk tech, or a million other things that the mobile market is desperate for innovation in. Your GPU ceiling is say ~1 billion users tops, your mobile CPU ceiling is ~6 billion users.

Big Phoenix · Apr 29, 2023

Brahma said:
I disagree. They have made some huge strides on their GPU in the last few months. In a few years they will probably be neck and neck with AMD and Nvidia as far as performance. If ANY big tech company can make that work, it's Intel.

I wouldnt count on it.

Intel is a horribly managed company(just reported their worst financial quarter in history) and producing high performance GPUs is every bit as hard as if not moreso than CPUs. Also Intel basically forced out the guy who was heading their GPU division;

Raja Koduri Leaves Intel to Found AI Gaming Software Start-Up

Raja moves on after five years.

www.tomshardware.com

Mist · Apr 29, 2023

spronk said:
end of the day though which is guaranteed to grow like gangbusters over the next 20 years, gaming GPUs or mobile CPU/GPUs? If I was a betting man I wouldn't bet on gaming GPUs doubling in a decade but thats an easy bet for mobile.

Plus GPUs are insanely more complicated now whereas maybe you could do something wild in mobile with power or batteries to make a generational leap, its unlikely you can do that in gaming GPU. GPU will basically be just "this is 2x faster!" and thats best case scenario, whereas a mobile CPU + screen combo that runs for say 7 days on a charge would be a game changer, or some sort of new eInk tech, or a million other things that the mobile market is desperate for innovation in. Your GPU ceiling is say ~1 billion users tops, your mobile CPU ceiling is ~6 billion users.

You realize that all mobile devices have GPU cores in them too, right? And that Intel has been pushing laptop CPU power efficiency very hard the past decade. Your stuff about battery life is basically magic, short of some entirely new materials science, you only get there based on continual 10-15% improvements per year.

Intel's expertise is in making general purpose computers, not RISC processors like mobile CPUs/SOCs. That said, they have committed to a major investment in next-gen RISC-V CPUs based on an open platform, to be fabricated at the facilities they are investing in building.

https://download.intel.com/newsroom/2022/manufacturing/Intel-RISC-V-Fact-Sheet.pdf

Intel's quarterly performance is not really reflective of their overall strategy, Samsung also suffered the largest quarterly loss ever. Being in the chip business after going from severe shortage to sudden glut is just a bad business environment to be in.

Brahma · Apr 29, 2023

spronk said:
end of the day though which is guaranteed to grow like gangbusters over the next 20 years, gaming GPUs or mobile CPU/GPUs? If I was a betting man I wouldn't bet on gaming GPUs doubling in a decade but thats an easy bet for mobile.

Plus GPUs are insanely more complicated now whereas maybe you could do something wild in mobile with power or batteries to make a generational leap, its unlikely you can do that in gaming GPU. GPU will basically be just "this is 2x faster!" and thats best case scenario, whereas a mobile CPU + screen combo that runs for say 7 days on a charge would be a game changer, or some sort of new eInk tech, or a million other things that the mobile market is desperate for innovation in. Your GPU ceiling is say ~1 billion users tops, your mobile CPU ceiling is ~6 billion users.

No doubt the mobile market is larger. I can't argue that it's the smarter more lucrative choice for Intel. I'm more along the lines of CAN Intel develop a GPU worth your time? A year ago I would have said nope. Now? They have a viable 3060 equivalent. Not bad for year one.

Brahma · Apr 29, 2023

Big Phoenix said:
I wouldnt count on it.

Intel is a horribly managed company(just reported their worst financial quarter in history) and producing high performance GPUs is every bit as hard as if not moreso than CPUs. Also Intel basically forced out the guy who was heading their GPU division;

Raja Koduri Leaves Intel to Found AI Gaming Software Start-Up

Raja moves on after five years.

www.tomshardware.com

I knew they took a huge loss this quarter, but wasn't that because of the GPU money sync? No clue how badly they are managed, nor did I know they lost their Koduri. Hell he brought the Arc cards to fruition. So I MAY stand corrected. Can't lose a guy like that and not lose a step or two.

Fucker · Apr 29, 2023

Big Phoenix said:
I wouldnt count on it.

Intel is a horribly managed company(just reported their worst financial quarter in history) and producing high performance GPUs is every bit as hard as if not moreso than CPUs. Also Intel basically forced out the guy who was heading their GPU division;

Raja Koduri Leaves Intel to Found AI Gaming Software Start-Up

Raja moves on after five years.

www.tomshardware.com

Was a horribly managed company. Gelsinger has only been there for 2 years, and is hard at work fixing the shit Swan left behind. Foundry is back on tack, as are product roadmaps. Koduri getting kicked out was a good thing; the guy is a testament to failing upwards.

Their revenues are down sharply, but that can't be pinned on Gelsinger. Everyone is down, and down big. Apple, -40%. AMD is expected to have a similar drop. Tech in general is getting the shit kicked out of it...and of course this is going to impact the people supplying the hardware.

Gelsinger will get a handle on it, and he's made more than a few key leadership decisions which will bolster his drive to turn the company around. It will take time, though.

Big Phoenix · Apr 29, 2023

Fucker said:
Tech in general is getting the shit kicked out of it...and of course this is going to impact the people supplying the hardware.

Thats the thing, Microsoft, Google and FB all had good quarters and none of them are cutting back on capital expenses when it comes to infrastructure.

Yet Intel sees its worst quarter ever? If purchasing managers wherent too retarded and afraid to buy AMD simply because its not named Intel, Intel would be swirling the drain by now like AMD was 7-8 years ago.

Though at the end of the day with the current geopolitical situation, no way the government would let Intel fail(hello chips act). Something Id guess management is well aware of.

Fucker · Apr 29, 2023

Big Phoenix said:
Thats the thing, Microsoft, Google and FB all had good quarters and none of them are cutting back on capital expenses when it comes to infrastructure.

Yet Intel sees its worst quarter ever? If purchasing managers wherent too retarded and afraid to buy AMD simply because its not named Intel, Intel would be swirling the drain by now like AMD was 7-8 years ago.

Though at the end of the day with the current geopolitical situation, no way the government would let Intel fail(hello chips act). Something Id guess management is well aware of.

You mentioned 3 companies that are doing well, yet ignored the hundreds that are getting the shit kicked out of them?

Mist · Apr 30, 2023

Big Phoenix said:
Thats the thing, Microsoft, Google and FB all had good quarters

Those are all software companies. Look at Samsung.

mkopec · Apr 30, 2023

Just speaking from laymans point of view but hardware is getting to the point that you dont need upgrades every year like it was only like 5 yrs ago. You get a $500- $1000 phone, first of all youre gonna be financing the thing for 2-3 yrs. So there goes all the sales. Why do they put out new $1200 flagships every year still?

Even for work hardware like laptops and desktop workstations, man that shit lasts a while. There are dudes at my work using almost decade old dells for their cad laptops. They give me a new desktop every few years because im a hardcore CAD user but I hardly notice the difference between old and new. Biggest difference I noticed was like 5 yrs ago when they finally were getting SSDs in them. Older CAD workstations go to the engineers that dont do much CAD, but shit, they have almost decade old stations, some even older and are not complaining. Its not like in the past when you got a new comp at work you were like WOW! HOLY SHIT this thing is FAST. I mean im sure if I had the decade old desktop side by side with mine right now, im sure there would be differences in speed, but its not like in the past where every iteration was like DAMN.

Big Phoenix · Apr 30, 2023

Mist said:
Look at Samsung.

Well sure, but a good chunk of their business also involves a lot of fabricating worthless unimportant IoT chips for products that consumers arent gonna be buying when budgets are tight.

Google, Microsoft are among the biggest cloud providers who make extensive use of Intel's bread and butter products.

Fucker said:
You mentioned 3 companies that are doing well, yet ignored the hundreds that are getting the shit kicked out of them?

Who else is a bigger customer for Sapphire Rapids than Microsoft or Google?

Daidraco · Apr 30, 2023

Big Phoenix said:
Thats the thing, Microsoft, Google and FB all had good quarters and none of them are cutting back on capital expenses when it comes to infrastructure.

Yet Intel sees its worst quarter ever? If purchasing managers wherent too retarded and afraid to buy AMD simply because its not named Intel, Intel would be swirling the drain by now like AMD was 7-8 years ago.

Though at the end of the day with the current geopolitical situation, no way the government would let Intel fail(hello chips act). Something Id guess management is well aware of.

Intel was the biggest hand out in the grand scheme of that. The fab they got out of that deal isnt top of the line, but getting a fab in general out of it is pretty big statement going forward "If shit hits the fan with Taiwan, we expect you to pick up the slack Intel."

mkopec said:
Just speaking from laymans point of view but hardware is getting to the point that you dont need upgrades every year like it was only like 5 yrs ago. You get a $500- $1000 phone, first of all youre gonna be financing the thing for 2-3 yrs. So there goes all the sales. Why do they put out new $1200 flagships every year still?

Even for work hardware like laptops and desktop workstations, man that shit lasts a while. There are dudes at my work using almost decade old dells for their cad laptops. They give me a new desktop every few years because im a hardcore CAD user but I hardly notice the difference between old and new. Biggest difference I noticed was like 5 yrs ago when they finally were getting SSDs in them. Older CAD workstations go to the engineers that dont do much CAD, but shit, they have almost decade old stations, some even older and are not complaining. Its not like in the past when you got a new comp at work you were like WOW! HOLY SHIT this thing is FAST. I mean im sure if I had the decade old desktop side by side with mine right now, im sure there would be differences in speed, but its not like in the past where every iteration was like DAMN.

Im surprised they arent using virtual desktops or something by now.

velk · Apr 30, 2023

Daidraco said:
Im surprised they arent using virtual desktops or something by now.

A virtual host machine for 100 laptops is more expensive than 100 laptops, especially if you have a lot of employees working remotely and paying for their own electricity. It gets exponentially worse as you scale up too.

Mist · Apr 30, 2023

mkopec said:
Even for work hardware like laptops and desktop workstations, man that shit lasts a while. There are dudes at my work using almost decade old dells for their cad laptops. They give me a new desktop every few years because im a hardcore CAD user but I hardly notice the difference between old and new. Biggest difference I noticed was like 5 yrs ago when they finally were getting SSDs in them. Older CAD workstations go to the engineers that dont do much CAD, but shit, they have almost decade old stations, some even older and are not complaining. Its not like in the past when you got a new comp at work you were like WOW! HOLY SHIT this thing is FAST. I mean im sure if I had the decade old desktop side by side with mine right now, im sure there would be differences in speed, but its not like in the past where every iteration was like DAMN.

I feel the exact opposite. 4 year old laptops are slow as shit. Your company must be buying the wrong laptops. You want workstations with H or HK series CPUs, not U or G series CPUs. The 12XXXH and 13XXXH series laptop CPUs are so unbelievably fast and efficient compared to any previous laptop-workstation class CPUs.

mkopec · Apr 30, 2023

Engineering companies like mine are so far behind the tech curve its not even funny. Especially mine where it was a Jap owned company since inception and their whole thing was keep shit simple and inexpensive as possible. We didnt even have security on any of our shit until like 15 or so yrs ago. Then someone brought a virus and plugged it into work and all shit broke loose. Fucked up our systems from here down to Tennessee manufacturing and even affected Mexico too if memory serves. Its only then they started to crack down on security and locking down those computers more and more. Now that were US bank owned, all of our IT shit is outsourced for the most part. And they locked everything down like brinx. With VPNs and all that, like it should be lol.

NVidia GeForce RTX 40x0 cards - x2 the power consumption, x2 the performance

Eeyore Enthusiast

Cis-XYite-Nationalist

FPS noob

Obi-Bro Kenobi-X

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler

FPS noob

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer

Eeyore Enthusiast

Obi-Bro Kenobi-X

Obi-Bro Kenobi-X

Log Wizard

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer

Log Wizard

Eeyore Enthusiast

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer

Golden Baronet of the Realm

Trakanon Raider

Eeyore Enthusiast