Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 3,656
- 1,382
I always questioned that figure considering the number of supporters never matched total number of registered users on the site, unless it was counting 'angel investors'.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 8,768
- 617
My honest opinion, no jokes or hyperbole:
The numbers have been fluffed from the very beginning. I've done some digging on the website and through member interaction and it lead me to this conclusion. I don't believe that there ever was a 10k supporter on the kickstarter and the initial website donation numbers were fluffed from the beginning, as much as 100k. I think the true number of donations is closer to 75k than 160k. I think Brad is now stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either he admits that he fluffed the numbers or he continues with the belief that he shorted his devs. I don't think this was a scam or money grab, I believe Brad truly wanted to make this MMO. The amount of money that would have been made if this was successful heavily outweighs the amount of the kickstarter goal. I believe the goal from the beginning was to get enough crowd funding that they would not need to sell their souls to a publisher.
I could be wrong, but based on my research, I'd say I'm pretty close.
The numbers have been fluffed from the very beginning. I've done some digging on the website and through member interaction and it lead me to this conclusion. I don't believe that there ever was a 10k supporter on the kickstarter and the initial website donation numbers were fluffed from the beginning, as much as 100k. I think the true number of donations is closer to 75k than 160k. I think Brad is now stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either he admits that he fluffed the numbers or he continues with the belief that he shorted his devs. I don't think this was a scam or money grab, I believe Brad truly wanted to make this MMO. The amount of money that would have been made if this was successful heavily outweighs the amount of the kickstarter goal. I believe the goal from the beginning was to get enough crowd funding that they would not need to sell their souls to a publisher.
I could be wrong, but based on my research, I'd say I'm pretty close.
I'd agree except for the "I believe the goal from the beginning was to get enough crowd funding that they would not need to sell their souls to a publisher." part. That's pretty much the opposite of what Brad's goal was.
Denaut
Trump's Staff
- 2,739
- 1,279
Personally, I think publishers have a worse reputation than they deserve among the gaming community. Not to say there isn't plenty to criticize, but these situations are much more complex and individual than is usually let on by the developer.
Tauro
Bronze Knight of the Realm
- 371
- 26
I guess in Brads ideal world his KS+website campaign would have copied the success of Chris Roberts/StarCitizen crowdfunding (maybe on a smaller scale) to be able to do the whole game without "investor/publisher"-money.
Brad's dream was 40+ million so he could bank half of it, and pay the little people to develop a game for the unwashed masses, with of course zero investment from himself. This was never a serious venture. They didn't even have a design doc from day one, let alone any actual work done, yet they took backpay. 160k or 60M it would at best been a mediocre EQ clone.
Congrats to the donors for paying off Brad's bills and helping him maintain his lifestyle without actually having a day job.
Whatever his original intentions were, the pitch was nothing more than him hoping his words would magically craft a game that would get excessive amounts of money (regardless of all his small budget talk) to be the king of his realm. Yet again horrible management destroyed the campaign and the team's morale as, based on any talks I've had, he kept absolutely nobody in the loop of whatever was going on in his head. Intended or not, the end result was a big scam when Pantheon didn't become the next EQ and fizzled time and time again up until the eventual "we're out of money" announcement.
I love when people got offended when anyone ever dared mentioned SOE publishing Pantheon. That would have been a dream scenario. Admittedly I took longer than some to see what it for what it was, but Brad would have been fortunate to getanyone'smoney else some shit like this would happen. But then, any publisher in their right mind would avoid this project. It's been mismanaged so poorly, the IP holds no actual value yet, and there's a nasty stigma with Brad that just got reinforced to the point of no return.
Originally I thought Denaut was being an ass but he called it exactly. I'm not saying nobody else wasn't blasting it either, but I feel like his critiques absolutely nailed it.
It's almost like he's had an inside look at a similar situation.
I love when people got offended when anyone ever dared mentioned SOE publishing Pantheon. That would have been a dream scenario. Admittedly I took longer than some to see what it for what it was, but Brad would have been fortunate to getanyone'smoney else some shit like this would happen. But then, any publisher in their right mind would avoid this project. It's been mismanaged so poorly, the IP holds no actual value yet, and there's a nasty stigma with Brad that just got reinforced to the point of no return.
Originally I thought Denaut was being an ass but he called it exactly. I'm not saying nobody else wasn't blasting it either, but I feel like his critiques absolutely nailed it.
It's almost like he's had an inside look at a similar situation.
It didn't start as a scam, but once Brad started taking money on his own site and realized it wasn't going to happen, a scam is exactly what it became. He fucked over his team, cleaned out the Pantheon bank and ran for the hills. What a total piece of shit. Now hes sitting back telling people hes waiting to hear back from investors. No he fucking isn't. Its over. Even he knows it. Vaporware.
I'm no game design expert, but if I, as a fan of gaming and MMO's can smell just how badly put together this project is after a couple weeks into the Kickstarter, what investor is going to touch it? I mean christ, I wouldn't even give him $15 to post on his site. Who's going to give him a million bucks?
I'm no game design expert, but if I, as a fan of gaming and MMO's can smell just how badly put together this project is after a couple weeks into the Kickstarter, what investor is going to touch it? I mean christ, I wouldn't even give him $15 to post on his site. Who's going to give him a million bucks?
I'll drop some details/stats for you guys, take what you want from it.
There are 1591 contributors listed on the website-
There are 1531 registered accounts-
There are 367 paying or paid members (5 dollar excluded)
Of the 367 paying members, roughly 100 of them have not logged in for weeks/months. If you dropped big money on a game, you would follow it.
The fund total is 161,000 dollars.
Let's say that the website had 200 5 dollar blue subs, to be kind... = 1000 dollars x 2 months
100 non logging in 15 subs = 1500 dollars x 2 months
367 members gave at least the 15/month sub but many gave pledge tiers. Of those 367, 100 have not logged in so assume they are only 15 and everyone else is a pledge.
161,000 - 2000 - 3000 = 156,000
So that means that the remaining 267 pledge members paid out 156,000 dollars or 584 dollars on average.
My opinion? Get the fuck out of here with that number
There are 1591 contributors listed on the website-
There are 1531 registered accounts-
There are 367 paying or paid members (5 dollar excluded)
Of the 367 paying members, roughly 100 of them have not logged in for weeks/months. If you dropped big money on a game, you would follow it.
The fund total is 161,000 dollars.
Let's say that the website had 200 5 dollar blue subs, to be kind... = 1000 dollars x 2 months
100 non logging in 15 subs = 1500 dollars x 2 months
367 members gave at least the 15/month sub but many gave pledge tiers. Of those 367, 100 have not logged in so assume they are only 15 and everyone else is a pledge.
161,000 - 2000 - 3000 = 156,000
So that means that the remaining 267 pledge members paid out 156,000 dollars or 584 dollars on average.
My opinion? Get the fuck out of here with that number
Would not surprise me. I have seen the paypal receipt from that KTAM fellow, he alone donated $3,100 U.S. to VRI. Some of those folks paid big money buying into the dream.I'll drop some details/stats for you guys, take what you want from it.
There are 1591 contributors listed on the website-
There are 1531 registered accounts-
There are 367 paying or paid members (5 dollar excluded)
Of the 367 paying members, roughly 100 of them have not logged in for weeks/months. If you dropped big money on a game, you would follow it.
The fund total is 161,000 dollars.
Let's say that the website had 200 5 dollar blue subs, to be kind... = 1000 dollars x 2 months
100 non logging in 15 subs = 1500 dollars x 2 months
367 members gave at least the 15/month sub but many gave pledge tiers. Of those 367, 100 have not logged in so assume they are only 15 and everyone else is a pledge.
161,000 - 2000 - 3000 = 156,000
So that means that the remaining 267 pledge members paid out 156,000 dollars or 584 dollars on average.
My opinion? Get the fuck out of here with that number
As to whether this started as a scam, I'd say no. I believe that they just went in naive as hell, thinking Brad McQuaid would have as much cache as Chris Roberts or Richard Garriot. Had Vanguard not happened the way it did, they may have been right. It was a last minute, "If they can do it we can too," mentality and an utter lack of understanding regarding how to run a successful Kickstarter.
There was no prep work, no plan, nothing to show, and nothing to get people other than us old school EQ fans excited. A stripped down, hardcore MMO experience would work in today's gaming environment. It just needs to be tangible, and sold as a barebones, hardcore experience with infinite opportunity for emergent gameplay.
Modern gamers fucking LOVE being dropped into a world knowinging nothing, with no backstory and no gear, and just working it out for themselves. That's what DayZ is, and Contagion, and upcoming game The Forest. Forget the shitty fanfic lore, and create a world. Then let the players use your world and create their own stories.
Anyway, I went on a rant, just saying I know for a fact one guy donated $3k just by himself so... yeah, not surprised by a $500 average at all.
I highly doubt it. The 10k guy never showed up and is vaperpledge as far as I'm concerned. From what I've seen Ktam is the highest donation or the people that came forward. (which is a lot)
There is no way in hell that the average is that high. Even some of the most devout followers have pledges in the sub 100 range and few are above 250 from those of which I talked to. 250 and 375 were the popular pledges among big boys and to say that the average of almost 300 people is above 500 is absurd.
Ah I did not know that. You're probably right. I also find it strange that the number continues to rise even after the news of the game being put on hiatus, and all new money now going to... Well who knows where it's going now, certainly not to game development.
zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
- 20,309
- 86,143
I agree with Frenzic. Some of the most devoted fanatics said they donated $250 and would do it again in a heartbeat. They could be lying but then why don't they give a higher figure? I think the $250 figure is from a very select group of people who were hoping for the sun, moon, and stars from Brad. I'd say this made around $100000 max. Still a pretty good haul for the amount of work involved. I'd say about $1000 per hour haul? That includes any brainstorming, playing with code, etc
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,408
- 185
IF you are doing something different build a co-op game first. Don't bother making a huge world yet... If you are not doing something different, don't bother.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,408
- 185
That is the thing, from what they showed... hell get 5 of us in a room for weekend with beer, weed and chinese food and we would have had that and more..
spot on analysis. too many games nowadays (especially MMO's) are too tied up in telling some uninspired bullshit story through meaningless quests rather than concentrating on the world and the experience itself. the entire time i played EQ i could have given a fuck all about the lore. in fact, i barely knew anything past the obvious. unfortunately, as much as i wanted pantheon to succeed, it seems like brad was going the same route as every other new game: all they wanted to talk about was the lore and how you were once a god and had to regain your god like status, blah, blah, blah.maybe it's for the best that this game never saw the light of day. they sure as fuck weren't writing shakespeare.
^ Another reason this industry is now complete shit. I really do hope it spirals downward, but this time there will be no Nintendo/Miyamoto to rescue it. Let it fucking burn.
I know right? Forget the millions of people who are enjoying themselves. If Dumar isn't having a good time we should just pull the plug on the whole industry.
