Wildstar tutorial isn't shit because it takes a long time. It's shit because it is the wrong kind of boring. Would rather run around velks soloing random spiders while inching my way through a double hell lvl without question.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
The point was that if people can't finish a brief tutorial no matter how boring then they sure as fuck aren't going to endure a lot of the shit that made EQ, EQ! It sounds great on paper, and we can all go back and play emulators/progression servers because we know the end result, but if you were traveling in an unknown world you would just think the game was shit and likely wouldn't invest the necessary time to ever see the end game.
EQ had some stuff to envy for sure, I just get off the bandwagon when people start talking about how great the death penalty was or how the economy would translate well to a modern game. WoW might have thrown the baby out with the bathwater, but there are way too many people on the EQ bandwagon who think you didn't even need to change a thing.
I will give EQ credit tho, its boredom was the right kind, the kind where I can watch TV or read a book while doing it. The new wowified boredom of grinding easy quests while running around spamming buttons is far worse in my book.
I will give EQ credit tho, its boredom was the right kind, the kind where I can watch TV or read a book while doing it. The new wowified boredom of grinding easy quests while running around spamming buttons is far worse in my book.
Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I will agree that the dungeon design of EQ is something no other game has replicated although vanilla wow came close. It doesn't always have to have a bunch of twists and turns. If it tells a good story that's also fun ( nek castle in EQ 2 comes to mind)
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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This is one of the most pro-classic EQ MMORPG communities out there, and even here, there are probably less than 10 people who advocate for a full classic era re-skin.
EQ dungeons were great, yet cherry-picking your analogy just makes you look like the myopic EQ fanboy that you are. Vanilla WoW dungeons have some of the best examples of true dungeon crawling the genre has ever offered. You chose a BC era winged dungeon that I would agree sucked ass, but EQ had shitty dungeons too.Yeah boy, it's that fucking nostalgia distorting our views of how shitty EverQuest was, yup. That's right. It was just so terrible compared to the fantastic games this amazing industry puts out today. Why I just don't know where we'd be without such classics like WoW.
Those rose-colored glasses the retard brigade accuses me of wearing? Take them, lube them up, then they and the retarded 'frozen moses' can collectively shove them up each others' retarded asses.
EQ dungeons were massive, but you didn't "crawl" them, you camped certain areas. If you were a monk, great, if not...enjoy the walls of the room you're in.
EDIT: Just be clear though, one thing I will not defend about WoW from BC onwards is the 5man dungeon design...I fucking rant about it all the time. The whole Scarlet Monastery winged-dungeon design is pathetic. Lot of things to love about WoW (if your head isnt stuck in '99), but post-Vanilla 5-mans isn't one of them.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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The saddest part is that the points of interest that makes up the BC+ dungeons are worth being a really good EQ style dungeon. Auchinduon was split into 3 hallway dungeons, but make those into one with appropriate dead ends and multiple levels and done. Same for the Space ship that was split into three group dungeons and one raid, same for the underwater caves with the naga, and the list goes on. Bite-sized dungeon/raid "Wings" is the worst thing coming out of Blizzard dungeon design imo. They pull back the curtain and tell you its gonna be 57 runs down this hallway for the shiny - that killed my interest.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 12,597
- 11,941
Nostalgia is part of it but there where things in EQ that just aren't into todays MMO's. I would have loved to see an EQ style game made again with updated tech. Things like highly desired buffs like SOW, public dungeons with camps, loot I don't need to replace every fucking week, no fucking item levels.
The problem is that the person looking to make this game is a fucking joke and it's biggest supporters in the community do the project more harm then good because they are anti-social twits.
The problem is that the person looking to make this game is a fucking joke and it's biggest supporters in the community do the project more harm then good because they are anti-social twits.
zzeris
The Real Benny Johnson
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- 93,045
Thank you Tantrik! Using one of the smallest dungeons in WoW versus that behemoth isn't really telling any of the story. Everyone knows EQ has had the best dungeons overall but not all of WoW is point A to point B in 45 minutes. WoW also wasn't the first to put that bullshit in. LDoN anyone? Vanilla was mostly a huge upgrade to EQ. The reason it didn't move closer to old EQ or stay the same? Bringing in a new audience just like EQ tried to do with it's expansions. WoW was just better at keeping people paying for virtual crack. Neither developer gives a shit where that monthly income comes from.
The reason this game isn't being made by anyone? Developers don't want to make the buggy, broken shit and sitting on your ass a lot isn't really something you can sell to a lot of gamers. When they look at the good shit like dungeon design and hard, group based content? They keep hearing about 'emergent gameplay' which is the exact opposite in EQ.
maraudon, razorfen downs/kraul, sunken temple (original one), even wailing caverns to some degree.
Adebisi
Clump of Cells
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Vanilla WoW had some great dungeons, yes - BRD was the best dungeon in the game. However, Auchenai Cryptsisthe best example to compare because hey,every single fucking dungeon in every expansion from TBC onwards was designed like this. Every. Fucking. One. The original BRD doesn't even exist anymore.
That's absolutely what we compare. The absolute shit turd that is WoW is 100% of that above.
Blackrock Depths or Spire were also pretty big. Attention spans are too short now so we get stuff you can faceroll in 10 mins.Yeah boy, it's that fucking nostalgia distorting our views of how shitty EverQuest was, yup. That's right. It was just so terrible compared to the fantastic games this amazing industry puts out today. Why I just don't know where we'd be without such classics like WoW.
Those rose-colored glasses the retard brigade accuses me of wearing? Take them, lube them up, then they and the retarded 'frozen moses' can collectively shove them up each others' retarded asses.
i've said this a thousand times, and i'll say it a thousand more: i'd rather camp like i did in EQ for hours on end than run the same fucking instance over and over again like WoW. after about the second time through an instanced dungeon run in WoW, i'd rather pour liquid mercury onto my eyeballs than do it again. EQ dungeons i could go back to a hundred times and i still enjoyed them.
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Half of your complaints were either because you were bad at the game or didn't have a good enough guild.
I DO want to be able to get lost again. That was half the excitement.
As for people complaining about EQ death penalty. It wasn't that bad. I wish it would come back in a modern MMO.
I loved vanilla wow dungeons, but that ship sailed a long time ago. In the current form they feel less like dungeons at all, and more like just a boss rush. Shit, ToES doesn't even have trash, does it? It's just a straight literal corridor of bosses. because even turning corners takes too much time away from our high speed-low drag lives. And that works for it, I suppose. I really don't want to clear trash and fuck around running from A -> B when all the focus is on the actual boss fight. I just wish we had more options. I would love a classic dungeon crawler, and if wow kept up the focus on challenging boss encounters I would be happy to play both games: Wow until I beat the boss and have nothing to do until lockout timers reset, and then switch to hypothetical open world dungeon crawling game.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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- 186
Nek castle in eq2 was awesome sauce. All that needs to be done is drop the linear crap add traps back in ala D&D and add puzzles.
DDO has the best dungeons since eq1 with vanguard (RIP) up there as well..
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,410
- 186
Got rid of the basement / upper floor events with the trolls, now you just walk around the 100% linear ground floor killing green dragons and Hakkar.