Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Erronius · Jun 20, 2014

Punko_sl said:
Even funnier that Brad is joining EQ facebook groups from way back. Does he actually think one of us original EQ players will come up with 1 mil $ to fund him?

No but he doesn't have any choice, because that is all he's got.

I'll tell you what one of Brad's biggest problems is: he's spent years being treated like aLITERALMMO Developer Jesus, and I'd wager that his views are skewed by all of the people that wet their panties whenever he shows up to shill one project or another. But his influence only applies to a relatively small group of gamers, outside of which he's a footnote. Random_Dev_02 from a game they never heard of. So he's forced to keep going back to the same well of gamers and repeating the same type of sales pitch that he always has. And because there is only one group of people that fawn at his feet, guess who he continually goes to in order to support his projects?

And every time we see the same writhing, convoluted, contortionist style justifications for why weHAVEto support BradCo."Obi wan Bradnobi, you're our only hope!"In regards to VG I could at least see some reasons for guarded optimism, but after years of drama and insider info reveals, the rest of us were just left to laugh and /facepalm when people did it ALL OVER AGAIN with this Kickstarter nonsense. And now we're seeing the same kind of things said about Brad this time around as we've all seen before - Brad vanishes when things get tough, he isn't good at management (of people or monies), and he is all too willing to play on the naive hopes and dreams of all of the blind EQ1 vets who want him to put out some sort of EQ1/VG 'done right'. He seems to have a habit of parachuting in unannounced, both to employees and fans on forums, but he becomes completely fucking nonexistent when he starts getting asked difficult questions. And I'd wager that the reason Brad vanishes when people start asking questions is that he doesn't want to have to wrestle with reality...he just wants to sit in his office and theorycraft or occasionally dispense wisdom from his ivory tower...while getting paid, of course. Because that's the important part. Brad wants to be Smed. He wants to be the guy in charge at the top, but he also doesn't want to roll up his sleeves and help the people in the trenches - which is why he's one of the worst people for a Kickstarter. Brad needs a mega bankroll so that he can sit back and delegate...or vanish completely and let everyone else make HIS game for him.

From what Dalien reposted (I remember this from back in the day):

Ex-Sigil: Yes. We got press because I think people wanted to believe Brad. They wanted it to be great and they got caught up in his passion.

People keep choosing to believe in Brad. Not because he's such an amazing Dev, but because he plays on their yearning for"the good old days". And Vanguard? I honestly don't think that any of the "good" portions of the game werebecauseof Brad, I'd phrase it that they were goodin spiteof Brad. Which is also what I would expect from Pantheon if it were ever to get off the ground - it would need the people doing the actual work to make Pantheon worthwhile, because Brad wouldn't really have a hand in it. To do that, you need really good and experienced people...

...

...yeah, about that.

All Brad is anymore is a pitchman, a salesman. And he wanted to try using KS in the hope that he could create enough buzz via his "fans" (lol) to attract legit investors, but I can't imagine any legit investors wanting to invest when Pantheon is literally nothing but smoke and mirrors. Nothing I've seen from Pantheon to date couldn't be thrown together in a shorter time frame and be better quality by random people from this forum.

chantmaster · Jun 20, 2014

Some people are more random than others...

I'd guess alot of people on this forum are above average paygrade, and probably significantly above game-programmer paygrades.

Chukzombi · Jun 20, 2014

i think most here have a paygrade, period. even brad has one. 15 k a month isnt too shabby a deal for riding around on your bike while day dreaming about elves and flaming swords and geeks willing to follow you to the ends of the earth.

Frenzic · Jun 20, 2014

I still can't believe that they got 400k on Kickstart. Such a small amount of pledges but kids got big boy jobs now. I'd say the well is dry now. I don't see an investor doing anything once they research the project.

Frenzic · Jun 20, 2014

Maester Chuk_sl said:
i think most here have a paygrade, period. even brad has one. 15 k a month isnt too shabby a deal for riding around on your bike while day dreaming about elves and flaming swords and geeks willing to follow you to the ends of the earth.

Yea... He's making slightly more than my household for doing no work. We make about 13k a month and work our asses off

Kyndread-Pantheon_sl · Jun 20, 2014

Muligan_sl said:
Kyn... if you had the opportunity to read the F13 transcript a few pages back discussing the Vanguard situation and all the pitfalls that occurred during that project, my question would be what do you see that would make this game different in terms of seeing the same fate as VG? Maybe not the final outcome but all the problems that occurred in each different stage.

To by honest, I can't say that I blame you for doing what you're doing. If I had the money to support my family and the time to give to something like this, I would roll the dice if the situation was right. However, I doubt it would be know Brad's past but then again IF (and this is a very BIG IF) it did make it, it may be worth it. Just some advice, and i'm sure you understand this, but I would ensure that this could in no way have a negative impact on your life either emotionally, financially, or professionally. If you can continue to work on this project as a side deal with minimal impact on your life, than more power to you.

I would say people on this board would be very understanding and possibly even supportive to you guys if you honestly wanted our opinions on the game and the mechanics but all of us will probably forever skeptical and cautious of Brad and anything he is around. Not necessarily because of games but the collateral damage that has hurt a lot of people over the years. At least that is my biggest beef with him.

I did read the F13 transcript. I?ll go over some things that I think sets Pantheon apart from what happened with Vanguard.

First of all, I think Brad has learned from his experience at Sigil and won?t allow history to repeat itself. He is devoted to seeing this project succeed and I believe is willing to do whatever it takes to that end. This can be seen with the way he has adapted himself to a more modern working environment. He came into the project perhaps with high expectations about being able to open up a studio right away and creating a corporate structure as this is how he was used to operating. Over time it became apparent that that may not be the best way of going about it since there was insufficient funding to achieve this.

He then became open to people working remotely and accepting volunteers to participate in the project. This helped reduce overhead and expenditures allowing for the project to continue without being hindered too heavily by lack of funds. The volunteers, although perhaps not seasoned veterans are all willing to work to see that the game continues to be developed.

Another thing that I think sets the development apart from the past is the use of Unity allows for the developers to more quickly build content and streamlines the development process.

We have Brad?s high level documents about various aspects of the game to base work off of, and are given much creative freedom, something that as I understand it wasn?t allowed with Vanguard.

Although the sound of untested, amateur volunteers building a game may not sound appealing, there are some very innately talented people on the team.

Branden is an amazing programmer and works feverishly everyday on the code for the game. Looking at the different builds I have seen over the last few weeks I am amazed at all the systems he has been able to implement already.

Then there is John, who I believe is like a prodigy. He composes music and works with Unity building scenes. I love watching him work as he is very passionate about what he does and I think it shows in his work. He has been working on a dungeon among other things since the last video was made, and I hope we can all show it to you soon in the next video/update.

Sparkling has been very good at managing all of us and bringing in new talent to the team. She has been amazing to work with and I believe has done a great job so far bringing us together and helping us to succeed in our various tasks.

Also, what you see in the videos and screenshots are the real deal. That is the current state of the game, not stuff put together to impress publishers. We are trying to show what we can as soon as we can.

As far as listening to you folks? input? We?d love your input on how the game is progressing, what you would like to see done, etc. That is part of why I am here. I don?t want to believe that you are all completely past being interested in the game. You are all still here and participating in this thread. You also have some real concerns and have been disappointed and let down in the past. While I can?t undo the mistakes of the past, we would still like to show you that we are serious about the game and making it happen despite all the bumps in the road thus far.

Valderen · Jun 20, 2014

If I were you guys working on this, I would try to get some legal document to protect yourself. As it is as far as I know, he has no obligation toward any of you. Meaning if he ever gets funding and a experience team, he can just replace you all without ever paying you...you're volunteers.

Just get something that will guarantee back pay if the project ever gets funding or released, and revenue comes in.

Frenzic · Jun 20, 2014

Does Monty work on twitch anymore? I'd like to watch him make the dungeon.

delirium_sl · Jun 20, 2014

Kyn, I have been lurking here and on the pantheon site. The first disapointment to me was when Silius told me there was "No necro planned at this time." What, if anything, can be done to fix this? Adding this crucial class may make me interested again although cautiously so.

Kyndread-Pantheon_sl · Jun 20, 2014

delirium_sl said:
Kyn, I have been lurking here and on the pantheon site. The first disapointment to me was when Silius told me there was "No necro planned at this time." What, if anything, can be done to fix this? Adding this crucial class may make me interested again although cautiously so.

I hear you. I'd love to see a necro class in the game. I will bring it up with the team and see if its something we can put in at some point even if it doesn't make it in with the set of classes at launch.

delirium_sl · Jun 20, 2014

I also would like to add that I too enjoyed VG a lot. I did not have many of the performance problems others have posted about until sometime in Aug of 2011 when the power went out at SOE and everything went down. When it was brought back up, for quite a while there were server side problems that persisted for a long long time. But I played VG from Beta on and for the most part, it ran fairly well from my old Dell inspiron 9300 laptop with a GeForce 7800GTX to the desktop I built in 08 that was an Intel Q6600 with a GeForce GTX275, to the desktop I have today which is an AMD FX-8320 with 8 gigs of ram and GeForce GTX660. I will admit that adding a SSD improved performance a lot, but even with the older style drives it wasnt that bad.

Xaxius · Jun 20, 2014

Kyndread-Pantheon_sl said:
First of all, I think Brad has learned from his experience at Sigil and won't allow history to repeat itself.

I stopped reading after this point. History has already repeated itself. Otherwise, how do you explain the terrible Kickstarter launch, the absence from this forum, the inexcusable misappropriation of funds, etc?

Brad's had his 2nd chance and squandered it. It's time to stop giving attention and money to someone who clearly doesn't deserve it.

Utnayan · Jun 20, 2014

We have Brad's high level documents about various aspects of the game to base work off of, and are given much creative freedom

I would love to see this high level document.

"To my minion volunteers - go forth and make the game based on my genius. Which is the following... HEAR ME"

* Open world
* 6 Person Groups
* Static Dungeons
* Rare Loot
* Rare Monsters
* Day and Night/Weather Cycles
* Levels
* Skills based on class
* Same Classes as EQ

I give you, my volunteer suc... EMPLOYEES... To go forth and use your creative freedom within the boundaries of my genius. Make me proud! Above all, make me revenue while I am at the strip bar spending some of this donation money. And remember, this is your chance to get on the map behind the most glorious mind in the gaming space next to Peter Molyneux"

Erronius · Jun 20, 2014

Utnayan_sl said:
I would love to see this high level document.

"To my minion volunteers - go forth and make the game based on my genius. Which is the following... HEAR ME"

* Open world
* 6 Person Groups
* Static Dungeons
* Rare Loot
* Rare Monsters
* Day and Night/Weather Cycles
* Levels
* Skills based on class
* Same Classes as EQ

I give you, my volunteer suc... EMPLOYEES... To go forth and use your creative freedom within the boundaries of my genius. Make me proud! Above all, make me revenue while I am at the strip bar spending some of this donation money. And remember, this is your chance to get on the map behind the most glorious mind in the gaming space next to Peter Molyneux"

Whoa whoa whoa! Slow down bro! You can't just drop two years of Lead Dev work on everyone here in a single post, you gotta spread it out, na'mean? Otherwise what are you going to do with the rest of your time? I mean, you don't want to have to actuallyWORKdo you?

Utnayan be tryin' to work himself straight out of a job.

arallu · Jun 20, 2014

Erronius_sl said:
Whoa whoa whoa! Slow down bro! You can't just drop two years of Lead Dev work on everyone here in a single post, you gotta spread it out, na'mean? Otherwise what are you going to do with the rest of your time? I mean, you don't want to have to actuallyWORKdo you?

Utnayan be tryin' to work himself straight out of a job.

I read that in this guys voice

Kyndread-Pantheon_sl · Jun 20, 2014

Utnayan_sl said:
I would love to see this high level document.

"To my minion volunteers - go forth and make the game based on my genius. Which is the following... HEAR ME"

* Open world
* 6 Person Groups
* Static Dungeons
* Rare Loot
* Rare Monsters
* Day and Night/Weather Cycles
* Levels
* Skills based on class
* Same Classes as EQ

I give you, my volunteer suc... EMPLOYEES... To go forth and use your creative freedom within the boundaries of my genius. Make me proud! Above all, make me revenue while I am at the strip bar spending some of this donation money. And remember, this is your chance to get on the map behind the most glorious mind in the gaming space next to Peter Molyneux"

Lol, that's pretty funny. It was far more detailed than that though. In fact, it would go into so much detail about seemingly minor mechanics and design principles that I was taken aback. I don't know if these documents are normally this in depth but it definitely didn't leave much to the imagination.

Arden · Jun 20, 2014

arallu_sl said:
I read that in this guys voice

It's funny. For some reason whenever I read Ut's posts, I hear Dwight:

Not necessarily meant to be an insult. Just being honest.

Utnayan · Jun 20, 2014

^^^ If you heard me in mumble you would probably think of this.

How to Do a Minnesota Accent | Accent Training | Howcast

That accent with a much deeper voice.

Erronius_sl said:
Whoa whoa whoa! Slow down bro! You can't just drop two years of Lead Dev work on everyone here in a single post, you gotta spread it out, na'mean? Otherwise what are you going to do with the rest of your time? I mean, you don't want to have to actuallyWORKdo you?

Utnayan be tryin' to work himself straight out of a job.

Shit you're right. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

"I am Brad McQuaid. I am announcing our Kickstarter campaign to make all your MMORPG gaming dreams come true. As you know, I am Brad McQuaid. The Original and sole genius behind the smash hit, EverQuest. And this title with a $30 million budget.CLASSIC GAMES REVISITED - Vanguard (Atari 2600) Review - YouTube

I want to entice you with why you should invest in my Kickstarter. I have some lofty goals and some great unlocks you will see as we draw nearer to funding this completely.

* Open World
* - To be announced - $200k
* - To be announced - $500k
* - To be announced - $900k
* - To be announced - $1.6 Million
* - To be announced - $3.2 Million
* - To be announced - $5.5 Million
* - To be announced - $7 Million
* - To be announced - $9 Million

But that isn't all folks. We have added incentives for when you donate. You will receive many a great things. For your convenience we have this in tiers.

Donation Amount:

$5.00 - Thanks. I just paid for my iPhone gaming habit for an hour
$10.00 - Thanks. I just paid for my iPad gaming habit for an hour
$25.00 - Thanks. I just bought my booze for Friday night
$50.00 - Thanks. I just bought my booze for Saturday night
$100.00 - Thanks. I just paid my electric bill for the month
$200.00 - Thanks. I just paid my Cable and Internet bill for the month
$500.00 - Thanks. If we ever put out a game you can buy it for $49.99 at Walmart. I also just paid my car payment for the month
$1,000 - Thanks! All the above rewards but we will also let you know when it hits Walmart Shelves
$2,000 - Thanks!! All the above rewards and I will also let you access the forums. (Read only)
$5,000 - Thanks!!! All the above but I will also let you PM me on the forums.
$10,000 - Thanks!!!! All of the above but now I will also reply to one of your PM's per month. One sentence only.
$25,000 - Thanks!!!!! All of the above and at the end of my PM reply every month I will tell you how much progress we are making by typing, "Making so much progress now. Just wait and see!"
$50,000 - Thanks!!!!!! All of the above and every month you will receive a private message from our volunteer Ester the Tester on the status of itemization.
$100,000 - Thanks!!!!! All of the above and I will have you out to visit my garage. (Flight, Meals, and Lodging your expense) While I am away in Hawaii based on donations up to that point.
$200,000 - THANKS!!!!! All of the above but there is a 50/50 chance you may see me pull out of my garage in my vehicle.
$500,000 - THANKS!!!!!! All of the above with an exclusive hand written note on how I stole most of the lore ideas for EverQuest from a Dungeon Master I played games with in 1989.

Stay tuned everyone for some exciting updates based on initial crowd investment. Aradune, signing off!"

TragedyAnn_sl · Jun 20, 2014

Frenzic_sl said:
My contract was zero dollars. Brad said he would give me money as it came in but could not put that in the contract for legal reasons. Brad keeps it so that he and he alone has the money.

Frenzic, you actually had to sign a contract to work on the video? What all was in said contract?

Valderen_sl said:
If I were you guys working on this, I would try to get some legal document to protect yourself. As it is as far as I know, he has no obligation toward any of you. Meaning if he ever gets funding and a experience team, he can just replace you all without ever paying you...you're volunteers.

Just get something that will guarantee back pay if the project ever gets funding or released, and revenue comes in.

I don't think Brad is nearly as clueless as he comes off, especially when it comes to CYA. If Frenzic wasn't being sarcastic about the contract, then Brad is having the volunteer team sign contracts. I'm guessing it will probably cover any intellectual property disputes (or any back pay demands, etc) that could arise if Pantheon ever becomes... real??

So as far as the team getting legal documents to cover their OWN asses? No way Brad would allow that. And they probably all already signed stuff waiving those rights lol

Adebisi · Jun 20, 2014

Utnayan_sl said:
^^^ If you heard me in mumble you would probably think of this.

How to Do a Minnesota Accent | Accent Training | Howcast

That accent with a much deeper voice.

Shit you're right. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

"I am Brad McQuaid. I am announcing our Kickstarter campaign to make all your MMORPG gaming dreams come true. As you know, I am Brad McQuaid. The Original and sole genius behind the smash hit, EverQuest. And this title with a $30 million budget.CLASSIC GAMES REVISITED - Vanguard (Atari 2600) Review - YouTube

I want to entice you with why you should invest in my Kickstarter. I have some lofty goals and some great unlocks you will see as we draw nearer to funding this completely.

* Open World
* - To be announced - $200k
* - To be announced - $500k
* - To be announced - $900k
* - To be announced - $1.6 Million
* - To be announced - $3.2 Million
* - To be announced - $5.5 Million
* - To be announced - $7 Million
* - To be announced - $9 Million

But that isn't all folks. We have added incentives for when you donate. You will receive many a great things. For your convenience we have this in tiers.

Donation Amount:

$5.00 - Thanks. I just paid for my iPhone gaming habit for an hour
$10.00 - Thanks. I just paid for my iPad gaming habit for an hour
$25.00 - Thanks. I just bought my booze for Friday night
$50.00 - Thanks. I just bought my booze for Saturday night
$100.00 - Thanks. I just paid my electric bill for the month
$200.00 - Thanks. I just paid my Cable and Internet bill for the month
$500.00 - Thanks. If we ever put out a game you can buy it for $49.99 at Walmart. I also just paid my car payment for the month
$1,000 - Thanks! All the above rewards but we will also let you know when it hits Walmart Shelves
$2,000 - Thanks!! All the above rewards and I will also let you access the forums. (Read only)
$5,000 - Thanks!!! All the above but I will also let you PM me on the forums.
$10,000 - Thanks!!!! All of the above but now I will also reply to one of your PM's per month. One sentence only.
$25,000 - Thanks!!!!! All of the above and at the end of my PM reply every month I will tell you how much progress we are making by typing, "Making so much progress now. Just wait and see!"
$50,000 - Thanks!!!!!! All of the above and every month you will receive a private message from our volunteer Ester the Tester on the status of itemization.
$100,000 - Thanks!!!!! All of the above and I will have you out to visit my garage. (Flight, Meals, and Lodging your expense) While I am away in Hawaii based on donations up to that point.
$200,000 - THANKS!!!!! All of the above but there is a 50/50 chance you may see me pull out of my garage in my vehicle.
$500,000 - THANKS!!!!!! All of the above with an exclusive hand written note on how I stole most of the lore ideas for EverQuest from a Dungeon Master I played games with in 1989.

Stay tuned everyone for some exciting updates based on initial crowd investment. Aradune, signing off!"

Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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