Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Creslin_sl said:

EQ eventually added a feature where you could mem a whole preset load of spells without having to find each one, and also categorized lists of spells to mem when you clicked on an empty spell gem, both of those features make buffing someone with something you don't normally cast pretty easy since you dont have to scan slowly through a 30 page book looking for a spell.

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Should have buffs/util separate from combat skills and be able to hotbar them anywhere, like potions etc. I really do not want to reload and look through spell books before buffing someone.

tad10_sl said:

We need a pool on when the kickstarter hits. I'm betting later than earlier. I was thinking this week but now I'm thinking they'll delay till last week in January at the earliest and possibly wait until Feb.

They want to:
1. Information about the kickstarter to fully flow out before they start it so they can have a good first day.
2. A video showing the combat and game features.
3. The pantheonrotf named lookup issue (points to SOE) to be fixed.

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waiting till february is not bad, let us recover from holiday spending a bit

Bilbo Faggins_sl said:

I completely agree. If a mob is going to use a weapon, they should be USING THE WEAPON. If they don't have a weapon visible in the fight, then they should not be getting the benefits of that weapon. In other words, a mob who is not holding a weapon should NEVER show that they are doing weapon damage. It should be fist, kick, swipe, bite, etc damage.

This all goes back to what I consider to be one of the main things that made the original EQ feel like a real world; The mobs played the game by the same rules as the players. That is the key. Don't allow the mobs to cheat. Create a world. Set physical constraints. Make the mobs and players play under those constraints. If a mob can summon a player running away from them, then so should the player be able to summon a mob running away from them. In other words, no summoning mobs. Either snare, root, or stun me to keep me from running away, or chase me. Don't cheat and magically summon me back to you.

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Trouble is these mobs still need to have drop tables. So you can't have ragnaros drop sulfuras every time you kill him, or illidan drop twinblades. So do you just goof the mechanic to make it 'realistic' and have these bosses drop some broken grey quality version of the weapon they were holding but didnt drop just so looking at the loot window is immersive for you? Cause the alternatives are either those guys always drop the weapons or sometimes spawn and punch you cause apparently they forgot their icon weapons at home, both of which are retarded.

Mobs can't always drop the stuff they are holding, its just fact. It was silly in EQ when mobs spawned without weapons, all those elite warriors punching you in the dungeon because they forgot a sword is dumb, but so is every mob dropping a any shown gear because that just ends in an avalanche of trash.

shabushabu_sl said:

waiting till february is not bad, let us recover from holiday spending a bit

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I'd actually prefer Feb, it always takes a solid month to start catching up after the holiday spending.

Creslin_sl said:

So what are peoples thoughts on stuff like diseases. EQ was the last MMO game I played where you really got any long term debuffs. Stuff like rabies from a zombie etc. Recently playing skyrim I like how they handled diseases, they start off with no real effect so they aren't instantly crippling, but then if you let it go hours without a cure it can become pretty debilitating. Makes it so getting rabies as a melee doesn't mean you just afk a half hour but still encourages you to work your way towards a cure shrine or something to get rid of it. Plus rewards exploration a bit because knowing about some hidden shrine would be important if you are out in the wilderness alone.

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I dig this idea, but you still should have potions and such that can cure disease, like D&D and of course crafters that make them.

As for questing I would love to see the player have to interact with npc's in order to obtain quest kinda like what EQ does and as far as a quest journal it should be a editable journal that has only the info and notes you the player make in it. So if you pick up a quest to get as specific item from as specific place you would have to into your journal and type the name or description of the item and the name or description of the place and off you go...

MrGlory_sl said:

As for questing I would love to see the player have to interact with npc's in order to obtain quest kinda like what EQ does and as far as a quest journal it should be a editable journal that has only the info and notes you the player make in it. So if you pick up a quest to get as specific item from as specific place you would have to into your journal and type the name or description of the item and the name or description of the place and off you go...

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Depending on the actual number of quests and quest depth, I am on board with this.

Dumar_sl said:

Please no flying mounts or flight paths. I'd prefer no mounts period, keeping things like jboots (and SoW, see the previous few posts) worthwhile.

But if you must put them in, they have to be slower than any buff provided by another class.

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Ya I don't want to see flying mounts or paths either but I do agree if they must be added later make them slower than movement social movement classes might be able to give...

How about random quest npc's. With a selection of quests too choose from .

Dumar_sl said:

First-person has to be the only-person, else it will hardly be used.

Go for it, Brad. Don't wimp out.

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There's a reason, given the choice, people wont' use first person. It's stupid. People like seeing their character with all of it's awesome gear. Best bet is to limit the zoom out distance.

Draegan_sl said:

There's a reason, given the choice, people wont' use first person. It's stupid. People like seeing their character with all of it's awesome gear. Best bet is to limit the zoom out distance.

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I never cared about seeing my character, more about seeing EVERYTHING surrounding you.

Hi everyone, Long time lurker but seeing Brad post here and being cautionsly hopful about his new game, i just had to make and account to weigh in. First off I played EQ from Aug 99 til about 05 when I got into VG beta and played VG on and off since. Played mostly necros but also toyed with a few other classes. Like many of you, I have been hopful of a return to a more hard core MMO even though I am a more casual player. I still love challenge.

Anyway Brad, good to hear from you, love what i am hearing so far but please, please take your time to make it happen. If something you are trying doesn't work out then just be open about it and I am sure you won't get the backlash like you did with VG.

Some things I do want to touch on though that will probably be features that have to be added later are things like maps or specifically the GPS mini map. Lets not have it. Instaid, I feel there should be a map making system, or you have to buy maps from either npc's or players who have made them. If you are trying to make your own map, then your character should have to have explored the area he/she is trying to map. VG's map/mini-map was very basic, but it still showed you POIs and even where you died. Which brings me to my next point.

It is unknown if corpse runs will be in Pantheon, but I hope they are and if they are, I hope the return more to EQ's way of player interdependence. By that I mean I missed my locate and summon corpse spells on my VG necro. Instaid you got a marker on your mini-map to tell you where your corpse was or you could summon it to an alter and take an XP/Gear hit. Personally even with the alters, i still think necros could have had atleast a summon corpse spell so that you could summon a players corpse out of a dungeon with out them having to take the xp hip of summoning it to an alter. Instaid of having a marker tell you where your corpse is, make a spell like locate corpse and have it get better with time. By this I mean have it point your character in the direction of a corpse at first, but as you get better at the spell it will place a marker on your map (if you have a map ofcorse) and then maybe at the highest version of it, you can cast it on another player and it will mark their map (again if they have one).

As for flying mounts- if done right, they could be great, otherwise, it just cheapens the world. We all saw this in VG. Though how they are in VG is not at all how they were intended. The idea was first, they were meant to be only for those at or near level cap and had to be earned through long, difficult series of quests. Secondly, when VG was in early development, I remember the goals they had of mounted and flying mounted combat which meant you could be attacked in mid air on your mount. So flying was not meant to be a means to get around unharmed, it just ended up that way because VG was never finished. So again, if done right, flying could be pretty great with out being game breaking.

Also, since I have not seen it mentioned, bring back purple clubbing. Thats all I have for now.

Well sure, but that's the #1 obvious reason people prefer 3rd person.

Flying mounts are an awful idea, especially the way they are implemented in WOW since it invalidates all the content. In the context of a hardcore MMORPG, you need to enforce distance even if you have some fashion of quick travel in the game (limited stations vs. 6 travel paths per zone) or some kind of summoning/porting abilities.

I don't know how you could do flying without taking the world away from people (assuming the world is crafted in such a fashion that max level players aren't only in 10% of the world zones like WOW). Either it's incredibly expensive or limited to 1-2x per hour or something. Like you have a flying mount that gets "tired" and can't fly for another extended period of time so you can use it to get to your friends for a single gaming session where not having it is a big deal since you got to where you wanted to go.

Draegan_sl said:

Flying mounts are an awful idea, especially the way they are implemented in WOW since it invalidates all the content. In the context of a hardcore MMORPG, you need to enforce distance even if you have some fashion of quick travel in the game (limited stations vs. 6 travel paths per zone) or some kind of summoning/porting abilities.

I don't know how you could do flying without taking the world away from people (assuming the world is crafted in such a fashion that max level players aren't only in 10% of the world zones like WOW). Either it's incredibly expensive or limited to 1-2x per hour or something. Like you have a flying mount that gets "tired" and can't fly for another extended period of time so you can use it to get to your friends for a single gaming session where not having it is a big deal since you got to where you wanted to go.

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What about 2 years down the line and having to re run grey zones to get somewhere? Would you agree flying mounts remove that headache?

Itlan_sl said:

I never cared about seeing my character, more about seeing EVERYTHING surrounding you.

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Same here. It's nice seeing the Troll behind you beating on you. Maybe we need rear view mirrors in first person mode, or at least a design where I know whats happening over my shoulder.

Third person for me kills immersion. The game goes from being interactive to being a top down board game. If I'm looking at myself, then it's not my character but a 'toon'.

popsicledeath_sl said:

Getting a mount was huge, not only for speed but because you didn't instantly get dismounted and there was gear to improve stability. So if you did get agro, you had an even better chance. Still risky, but as you leveled up and areas were more dangerous, you had more tools, so it still wasn't kick-in-the-balls tough to travel. Again, you basically just had to pay attention and were rewarded for learning an area and shortcuts.

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What if your mount could be killed? I mean, if you get caught by trolls or ogres, it likely that your mount would escape in the wilds or gets killed...

Draegan_sl said:

Flying mounts are an awful idea, especially the way they are implemented in WOW since it invalidates all the content. In the context of a hardcore MMORPG, you need to enforce distance even if you have some fashion of quick travel in the game (limited stations vs. 6 travel paths per zone) or some kind of summoning/porting abilities.

I don't know how you could do flying without taking the world away from people (assuming the world is crafted in such a fashion that max level players aren't only in 10% of the world zones like WOW). Either it's incredibly expensive or limited to 1-2x per hour or something. Like you have a flying mount that gets "tired" and can't fly for another extended period of time so you can use it to get to your friends for a single gaming session where not having it is a big deal since you got to where you wanted to go.

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This actually gave me a cool idea. That is, mounts in general should not be able to run at full speed indefinately, they should have a sort of stamina bar where when they get tired, they slow down (or if flying mounts exist, they have to land) until they have rested. Again there are ways you can make these things work and not at all be game breaking. I think VG and many other games have left a bad taste in many of our mouthes when it comes to mounts, especially ones with wings.

Mahulk_sl said:

What if your mount could be killed? I mean, if you get caught by trolls or ogres, it likely that your mount would escape in the wilds or gets killed...

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This too! They actually had this planned for VG as well.