Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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Dullahan
Golden Knight of the Realm
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I think the intention is for them to be important, but for player hubs to develop organically for trade and so forth. Personally i think it would be amazing if they found a way to make home cities more central for players.
Pantheon will not have hubs used for experience. There will be quests, but you won't be jumping from hub to hub to level up.
When they talk about player driven economy, I don't think they mean it like sandbox purists who insist every item in the game be created by players. They mean that most items will be tradeable and you can buy, sell and in some cases create them, rather than obtaining them exclusively from npcs or while adventuring. However, they do intend to have a way to craft "most of the items that drop in the game".
They intend to have a robust crafting system, so the plan is to be useful enough that people will want crafted gear. If they're ever to have crafting that's both useful but doesn't trivialize dropped gear, some components have to be dropped or found on nodes that require a group to access. Allowing players to run around hitting nodes by themselves (like in Vanguard) cannot yield armor better than dropped gear requiring a group or raid.
Right now the plan for acclimation gear is going to be something of an augment system separate from your main set of gear. I don't know if they have any plans of crafting the items. I'd hope that even if materials are dropped, that a lot of things require crafters to combine the parts.
I agree with them needing to make more commitments, though they have given a pretty good overview of what they intend to do in the FAQ and About section on the website. Still, I think it's good to put out concrete information as they make decisions. I think having so much up in the air at this point only makes people question how well thought out things are, and whether they're going to stick to their guns.
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DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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Did anyone really give a shit about their home cities past Kunark? I feel like the reason people felt attachment is because they were newbs and didn't know the world, not because there was super compelling reasons to hang out there.
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Dullahan
Golden Knight of the Realm
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There really wasn't much of a reason to go back after Kunark mostly due to proximity. Also once you're higher level, there wasn't a whole lot of incentive to go back. All the quests were really for leveling up, and you didn't need much protection at high levels. On PvP servers it was cool because you didn't have to worry about getting ganked, but that's about it.
Still, i think that early experience was important. Gave you something in common with people and people to group with. I personally hope there's some benefit to going back home on a regular basis.
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Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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i did, i would have stayed bound in Halas had they updated the zone to go with the times. instead they kept the place in a time capsule and thats how it died. no new spells no new quests, no portals no new npcs.
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Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I hope they bring back a Bazaar. Not in the stupid way EQ did it where you have to keep your client running, though. and Buy orders as well.
I really, really liked browsing player shops in the bazaar. Maybe not make it squeaky clean like a hospital next time.
I really, really liked browsing player shops in the bazaar. Maybe not make it squeaky clean like a hospital next time.
ZyyzYzzy
RIP USA
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Fight
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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If you played Vanilla EQ, you would have a great appreciation for your starting cities. They were so important to the world-building and immersion. They were located well, to give the world a sense of size and scope.
I think what made the EQ cities so great is that they felt real and lived in. Nothing cookie cutter about them... from the layouts (Wood Elves in the trees, Dwarves carved into a mountain, Trolls in a frog & mosquito infested swamp), to the secret areas (Freeport tunnels), to the vendors that had hard to find spells (Highpass Hold), unique quests without equivalent in the other cities (Trueshot Longbow), to lore characters that did not have much of a purpose to the larger game (Ak'Anon King), and the NPC's that could be killed for exp/loot at the cost of faction hits (Oggok Ogres and their Stein's). Also, most of the cities had unique music (Kelethin & Rivervale), that added a lot of character and really set a mood for a RPG. There was something really charming about hauling backpacks full of rusty weapons back to town and visiting the banker before logging off for the evening.
If you were a late-comer to the party 2002 or beyond, then I could see how starting cities were mostly irrelevant to your EQ experience.
I think what made the EQ cities so great is that they felt real and lived in. Nothing cookie cutter about them... from the layouts (Wood Elves in the trees, Dwarves carved into a mountain, Trolls in a frog & mosquito infested swamp), to the secret areas (Freeport tunnels), to the vendors that had hard to find spells (Highpass Hold), unique quests without equivalent in the other cities (Trueshot Longbow), to lore characters that did not have much of a purpose to the larger game (Ak'Anon King), and the NPC's that could be killed for exp/loot at the cost of faction hits (Oggok Ogres and their Stein's). Also, most of the cities had unique music (Kelethin & Rivervale), that added a lot of character and really set a mood for a RPG. There was something really charming about hauling backpacks full of rusty weapons back to town and visiting the banker before logging off for the evening.
If you were a late-comer to the party 2002 or beyond, then I could see how starting cities were mostly irrelevant to your EQ experience.
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Another facet was that during the first few months of EQ, the rest of the world outside of the cities was really fucking dangerous to most characters. Low to middle level zones still had strong roamers that could wreck your day. Moving to a new city was a journey full of risk.
That and melee binding restrictions.
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Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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Absolutely... if you started in FP and you zoned into EC, you have Giants, Griffins, etc. I liked having Dorn type characters in camps too that just messed your world up and you have no idea why that one NPC was so strong. It was some real satisfaction to kill him and Kizdean Gix, Dragoon Zytl, etc. I was fun to slowly adventure away from home and bring stuff back to turn in, sell, or talk to people along the way. It really had some nice pacing in the beginning.
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Saw this last week and was like damn these people get work in Gfay! They need to get rid of that lame ramp though and put in an elevator with a PoD at the bottom. And the guard rails can go too, no newb corpses below.
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Daidraco
Avatar of War Slayer
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Im not one to be behind crafters. I think the idea is neat, but I dont want to be dragged into making my own shit. I dont mind working with people that want to do it, I just dont want to do it.
Ive always been annoyed at the fact that it takes a crafter 3 hours to skill up to a level 15 item (example), and the time and effort it takes to get there makes the asking price of that one item 3 gold by market demand. Meanwhile the adventurer that started later than the crafter is just now getting level 15, looks at the price of the piece of gear and thinks... "Well fuck, Ive only made 50 silver this entire time." The system is lame, poorly thought out and dumb. It's not set up for trading, its set up for a solo player to make his own gear.
The only time I look fondly at crafting in a game is when I go out to a dungeon, get a piece of gear that is awesome and then have the option to modify it. The item has 95% of its potential power, but a crafter can improve that piece to the 100% and you get options. You can improve one of its stats, add a slot based ability to the item, or you can add resists. The player doesnt have to engage in crafting unless they want to maximize the potential of their items. Adding a "Fur Lining" from Halas to a cloak for cold resists shouldnt be insanely expensive either. Just time consuming, requiring the best protection be from crafters crafting it in Halas.
In this long bitch session, Im not saying crafters shouldnt be able to make entire pieces of gear.. but if they do make a piece, then the crafter should have an affordable version for the noobie that just got that level. If the crafter wants to make an epic quality piece of gear, then make the affordable version need to include mats from notable dungeons that a seasoned player would be at, that can afford it. At least, imo.
As for towns and cities, they just stopped updating stuff in EQ. You would rarely get a new quest in the next expansion for Kelethin or whatever. If they did add a quest, it would be a handful of them and they wouldnt be very important to the player to finish them or not. Stormwind and Orgrimmar have stayed relevant for fucking ever. Even after the convenience of the dalarans and similar. Quests are updated there, all your skill shops, the auction houses, arenas, etc. They are the Super Walmart of cities in WoW and.. honestly, thats how I would expect a city. They are the proverbial bastion of alliance and horde in WoW.The only time I look fondly at crafting in a game is when I go out to a dungeon, get a piece of gear that is awesome and then have the option to modify it. The item has 95% of its potential power, but a crafter can improve that piece to the 100% and you get options. You can improve one of its stats, add a slot based ability to the item, or you can add resists. The player doesnt have to engage in crafting unless they want to maximize the potential of their items. Adding a "Fur Lining" from Halas to a cloak for cold resists shouldnt be insanely expensive either. Just time consuming, requiring the best protection be from crafters crafting it in Halas.
In this long bitch session, Im not saying crafters shouldnt be able to make entire pieces of gear.. but if they do make a piece, then the crafter should have an affordable version for the noobie that just got that level. If the crafter wants to make an epic quality piece of gear, then make the affordable version need to include mats from notable dungeons that a seasoned player would be at, that can afford it. At least, imo.
Designers need to take a stance that if they are going to put work into cities, then they need to have a draw to these cities that will last through expansions. Cities in real life are, for the most part, positioned in the world for a specific reason. For example: The dwarves are deep down in the mountain in Kaladim for protection, gems and ore. Why not make the refinement of gems and ore have a greater quality effect (Pure +stat) if they take place there, and the Elves of Felwithe have an additional quality (Exquisite +stat) for jewelry made in their magical, floating buildings on their specialized marble tables. Make it percentage based on the item level of the gear so it persists through expansions.
So, since we're already talking about crafting - a ring that goes through that process that would normally be a +3 stat for a common, in the middle of nowhere ring, is now an "Exquisitely Pure" Ring, which is a +5. Craft the ring in Kelethin, and now you can come up with another classification like "Agile" and have +3% haste, to the +3 base ring. So a Dwarven mined, Kelethin made ring is an "Agile ring of Purity" +4 stat, +3% haste. It would keep your crafters busy and in a specific location for expansions to come if designed properly.
It would be easy to expand upon this, like making Black Diamonds more powerful if worked with in Ocean of Tears - but then we're stepping away from the point of just trying to get people to stay in the cities and more towards just making the game arbitrarily more time consuming.
So, since we're already talking about crafting - a ring that goes through that process that would normally be a +3 stat for a common, in the middle of nowhere ring, is now an "Exquisitely Pure" Ring, which is a +5. Craft the ring in Kelethin, and now you can come up with another classification like "Agile" and have +3% haste, to the +3 base ring. So a Dwarven mined, Kelethin made ring is an "Agile ring of Purity" +4 stat, +3% haste. It would keep your crafters busy and in a specific location for expansions to come if designed properly.
It would be easy to expand upon this, like making Black Diamonds more powerful if worked with in Ocean of Tears - but then we're stepping away from the point of just trying to get people to stay in the cities and more towards just making the game arbitrarily more time consuming.
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Zaide
TLP Idealist
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It would be cool to see things like raid mobs dropping items which are then crafted into raid tier gear. Things like the dragon boss drops dragon scales which you forge into dragonscale armor if you have sufficient skill in various TS's. They could also have certain major mobs drop very rare & powerful crafting recipes. Crafting can definitely be organically incorporated into the gameplay at all levels like this, making it valuable but not annoying.
For an example of how NOT to incorporate crafting look at the banes in Luclin. To hit Seru you need a bane weapon that is no drop and crafted, so all your melee need to get around 150 skill in smithing to deal damage to him.
In terms of making starting cities really "matter" across all levels, let's look at Velious with the ring and shawl questlines. This is essentially a long geopolitical quest across Velious which results in scripted battles occurring between various factions. The same thing could have been implemented with the starter cities.
Imagine if the Battle of Bloody Kithicor was the culmination of a "ring quest" with Highkeep and Neriak and could be repeated by players.
Gate these quests behind a series of quests and faction requirements so it requires dedicated progression and provides a level of relevance and involvement across all level ranges. Then as you beef up content in future expansion you can just add a new tier to that questline if you want to be lazy, or you can do entirely new questlines outlining the political dealings between new entities across multiple cities and factions.
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xzi
Mouthbreather
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That was one of my favorite things about vanilla wow, specifically how skinning core hounds and dragons gave crafting materials for really strong items. I hated that Nefarian needed onyxia hide cloaks but it was still really amazing to me at that time and I've been wishing they would bring back similar ever since.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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Been watching their TwitchCon segment. PVP servers. Plural. Game gonna be so popular it will have multiple PVP servers! Hellz yeah!
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