Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Utnayan_sl said:

I think you are absolutely correct. And while true for the industry as a whole, it is more true for this genre. And those relics continue to pump out garbage.

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So you give this project a 0% chance of working out?

I feel like I'm the twilight zone right now. Why the fuck do you care what he thinks about some project that hasn't really even started yet? You're probably just as familiar with McQuaid's work as he is. Ut isn't a unicorn with magic fucking powers. Jesus christ.

I agree with some of the points made about the old guard , money bags and so on.

The outside chance for me is maybe McQuaid got so publicly blasted for his extreme fuck up of handling the Sigil debacle , from missed deadlines to finally the hiding at home while employees were fired in the parking lot , that his ego maybe wants to "prove he can do it right".

Maybe way off though , just a possibility.

Just seems between brad , ponytail , and butler , that currently McQ's the one of the three who actually still is interested in making a good game not for the AOL of mmo's crowd.

And that's a sad statement.

Kid Sized Coffin_sl said:

I feel like I'm the twilight zone right now. Why the fuck do you care what he thinks about some project that hasn't really even started yet? You're probably just as familiar with McQuaid's work as he is. Ut isn't a unicorn with magic fucking powers. Jesus christ.

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I don't care lol but that doesn't mean I can't engage him. Look past your hate for UT for a second and realize that's all I'm doing.. This is a forum dude. You ask questions and give feedback..I'm asking him a question.. Some people are just so jealous!?

This project isn't just about Brad making a new MMO... It's about him trying to offer something old school with a new flavor(hopefully) and get us moving into a new direction. The game could fail on a vapor level but if it generates a lot of buzz with it's ideas and direction it would still be a positive in my eyes.

I don't hate him. I just don't think he's the prognosticator of prognosticators.

Kid Sized Coffin_sl said:

I don't hate him. I just don't think he's the prognosticator of prognosticators.

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I don't either lol.. But what, I can't ask him a question when he makes a comment like that? I'm not sure wtf you're getting at? I would of asked that to anyone..

I just disagree UT. But we will see. at least it's one of the more interesting things to talk about and follow for the next few years. Hopefully he can pick up some quality people for the project. I know there are a lot of SoE and Trion Devs looking..


Titan is still a fucking mystery to me.. None of you guys in the know have spilled it.. At this point what does it matter? It sounds like they are going for a full redesign.

what a lame company

Its a starcraft mmo. Ive been saying it for years.

I believe in the Brad McQuaid project. Its all we've got.

I could not give a wet shit about what Brad starts, you let me know if he actually finishes something this time.

mkopec_sl said:

Blizzard is like the worlds Japan. They never invent anything, just refine what's already invented and profit. Not that there is anything wrong with that. And you bet your ass they will make another mmo. The shit is like printing money. Even for shitty companies which made subpar mmos.

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ITitan will just be WoW 2.0: Take StoryBricks-like NPC (non-combat) AI and Voxel Destruction of EQNext and add real MMO classes and Vanilla WoW (Trinity) Combat. Butler's and EQNext's biggest problem is their desire for everything to be shiny and new so they kicked out the good with the bad. More power to Blizzard for not having the bullshit "not-invented-here" mindset.

As for Brad, as usual Ut is partially right and partially wrong. Ut still fails to acknowledge that while VG was as buggy as a pile of buffalo shit on the plains, it was also the most interesting MMO to release since Vanilla WoW and had, inarguably, the best class system of any MMO. That said, Brad will not ship a new MMO unless he has a baller CEO/Producer to hold his feet to fire and I don't see that happening right now.

What Brad needs to learn, or should obviously know by now (and if somehow not, PLEASE listen), is that game design means nothing if the engineering talent is not up to task.

The lesson of WoW is not one of great casual game design, of accessibility to the masses, but one of great software engineering talent makes or breaks the game. If WoW had EQ style mechanics, it still would be quite successful. The WoW gameplay engine was designed and developed by an absolutely great team of programmers and technical artists, and the WoW game designers rode the success of those engineers' coattails to the coked up hookers in ferraris: THAT is the difference. THAT quality of engineering must be there, must be present, else your game will fail, no matter how great your design is.

Had Darkfall or Shadowbane had Blizzard engineers, then we would've seen totally different games and releases to success.

Don't hire good engineers, Aradune. Hire great ones.

You have to remember that Brad didn't really invent many game elements. Half of what made EQ great was already in place in MUDs (grinding, camping, raiding, classes, level time, death penalties, class interdependence, hardly any solo content) and a bigger portion of that other half were often un-intended consequences in game design.

I would actually be much more excited following a new MMORPG in development that hae never been at the head of development before (but has had experience shipping one) than someone who has already headed up development already (once or multiple times). For example, I'd love to see what Scott Hartsman could do if he was in charge from day 1. His two success stories have been rescuing sub-par products like Rift and EQ2.

For me, when my friends and I played D&D, it was all about "being" that character. Putting yourself in his (her?) shoes and making decisions based on how you would deal with the given situation. If/when you were lucky enough to get some magical gear and if your DM was good enough to create the scenarios and sessions, you really felt some accomplishment. That is the exact reason I loved EQ when I first played the game. The attachment to the character. Now I admit, a lot of that feeling falls off with age (at least somewhat for me) but maybe that is what some of these talented developers need. I am not saying they all started with Dungeons and Dragons, but if they can go back to their roots that made them love the genre to being with, maybe we could see some changes. Get the talent together with a great DM and have a 6 month long, hardcore D&D/? session. Make them remember what it was like to be a part of that character you are building.

Unfortunately, it seems that this philosophy does not go hand in hand with the mighty dollar sign. I can't blame them for wanting to make the most money out of their product, but until someone does it out of love for what it is, we (the ones that share my line of thinking) will not be able to relive that kind of attachment. I know I am probably regurgitating what I have posted before, but it's pretty clear as to what sets the older generation apart from the newer casual generation. Someone else also posted it here somewhere, regarding the digital age diminishing the imagination kids need to have to play newly created video games. There are and will always be the needles in the hay stacks, which is what keeps some of us playing games at all. But I still hold out hope for another MMORPG to get me and my friends hooked the way I once was.

Well the thing is most people want a game first, then the fluff. What you are describing would require making a world first and then allow playing in it. I doubt anyone that is out for money will put more emphasis on that immersion then they have to.