Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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Dullahan

Dullahan

Golden Knight of the Realm
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AI or machine learning is totally unnecessary for most to enjoy an mmo. Just having mobs that are programmed to somewhat intelligently, somewhat creatively use their abilities to harm and heal requiring the player to pay attention and respond is a proven formula. Creating a half a dozen dispositions where mobs may prefer attacking or debuffing over healing, or fleeing over fighting to the death, will keep things feeling pretty fresh. For me, it's the lazy patterns and nerfing of the edges which prevents any semblance of dynamic scenarios that has left mmos so stale. There are still more variables in a high level EQ combat situation than you'd find in almost any new mmo.
 
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T

Treesong

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Dullahan said:
There are still more variables in a high level EQ combat situation than you'd find in almost any new mmo.
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This is very true. To name one thing, the aggro system has a depth that adds a lot to combat, especially in a Dungeon. Social aggro, proximity aggro, aggro radius, aggro-transfer, then add the various Crowd Control tools(Lull, Mez, Harmony, Memblur etctera), that add to the tactics and you could pull of some interesting pulls in a crowded dungeon. The fact that mobs originally were not on a leash also made that you had to be smart about pulling, because if not you simply were chased out of the zone (or dead, in a dungeon).
 
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Grim1

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Treesong said:
This is very true. To name one thing, the aggro system has a depth that adds a lot to combat, especially in a Dungeon. Social aggro, proximity aggro, aggro radius, aggro-transfer, then add the various Crowd Control tools(Lull, Mez, Harmony, Memblur etctera), that add to the tactics and you could pull of some interesting pulls in a crowded dungeon. The fact that mobs originally were not on a leash also made that you had to be smart about pulling, because if not you simply were chased out of the zone (or dead, in a dungeon).
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The leashing mechanic is a huge detriment to the sense of danger. Every game has it after Wow and I think it was a mistake. EQ's no leash version had problems too though, easily exploitable and it didn't make logical sense for every mob to chase you to the end of the zone.

A better option would be a combination of systems. A city guard shouldn't leave his post so his leash should be fairly short. But local patrols would run you down, as would a really pissed off boss mob. And for real fun have an rare death demon type that could chase you across zones.
 
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Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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In a seamless world mobs not leashing makes no sense and is just frustrating and annoying. WoW's daze mechanic worked just fine, but the game eventually got to the point where even clothies could get dazed and keep running away without ever being in danger of dying. Just use a mechanic similar to that but keep the danger of dying so people don't just run through giant packs like they don't matter.
 
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Locnar

Locnar

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Dullahan said:
AI or machine learning is totally unnecessary for most to enjoy an mmo. Just having mobs that are programmed to somewhat intelligently, somewhat creatively use their abilities to harm and heal requiring the player to pay attention and respond is a proven formula. Creating a half a dozen dispositions where mobs may prefer attacking or debuffing over healing, or fleeing over fighting to the death, will keep things feeling pretty fresh. For me, it's the lazy patterns and nerfing of the edges which prevents any semblance of dynamic scenarios that has left mmos so stale. There are still more variables in a high level EQ combat situation than you'd find in almost any new mmo.
Click to expand...

Also there has to be a certain element of randomness in mob behavior. Throwing out rare unexpected moves or behaviors from time to time to make the players sit up and say "whoa".
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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Locnar said:
Also there has to be a certain element of randomness in mob behavior. Throwing out rare unexpected moves or behaviors from time to time to make the players sit up and say "whoa".
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B-b-but then I can't mindlessly grind for ten hours straight while watching TV!
 
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BoozeCube

BoozeCube

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Look back at where they started and where they are now. You will notice that nothing has really changed.
 
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Zaide

Zaide

TLP Idealist
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BoozeCube said:
Look back at where they started and where they are now. You will notice that nothing has really changed.
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Gameplay from 2014 - Zero zones, zero actual models, zero enemies


Gameplay from 2016 - One zone, one character model, few enemies


Gameplay from 2018 - Nine zones, 5 character models, multitude of enemies


Screenshot from 2014
rBZvoYx.png


Screenshot from 2018
BlackRoseKeep_041.png

BlackRoseKeep_043.png
 
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BoozeCube

BoozeCube

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Zaide said:
Gameplay from 2014 - Zero zones, zero actual models, zero enemies


Gameplay from 2016 - One zone, one character model, few enemies


Gameplay from 2018 - Nine zones, 5 character models, multitude of enemies


Screenshot from 2014
rBZvoYx.png


Screenshot from 2018
BlackRoseKeep_041.png

BlackRoseKeep_043.png
Click to expand...


eqnext_rrr_img_128295-660x371.jpg
 
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orionTZ1998

orionTZ1998

Golden Squire
173
285
Zaide said:
Gameplay from 2014 - Zero zones, zero actual models, zero enemies


Gameplay from 2016 - One zone, one character model, few enemies


Gameplay from 2018 - Nine zones, 5 character models, multitude of enemies


Screenshot from 2014
rBZvoYx.png


Screenshot from 2018
BlackRoseKeep_041.png

BlackRoseKeep_043.png
Click to expand...

5 character models after 5 years of development doesn't really strike me as impressive.
 
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Dullahan

Dullahan

Golden Knight of the Realm
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If only they knew completing their character models in pre-alpha was what stood in their way of rocking.
 
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Mat'hir Uth Gan

Mat'hir Uth Gan

Trakanon Raider
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orionTZ1998 said:
Having a game still in pre-alpha after 5 years of development doesn't really strike me as impressive.
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Well, to be fair, they did start completely over once Joppa took over and decided the company should be run in a legitimate manner. I think that was in 2016. They still move at sub-turtle speed, and I have all kinds of concerns and doubts as well, but I view them as being about three years in. It just feels a lot longer due to the failed KS and fuzzy troll era.
 
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orionTZ1998

orionTZ1998

Golden Squire
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285
Mat'hir Uth Gan said:
Well, to be fair, they did start completely over once Joppa took over and decided the company should be run in a legitimate manner. I think that was in 2016. They still move at sub-turtle speed, and I have all kinds of concerns and doubts as well, but I view them as being about three years in. It just feels a lot longer due to the failed KS and fuzzy troll era.
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What was this fuzzy troll era? This is the second or third time I've seen that reference and I have no idea what it means.
 
Kuro

Kuro

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Brad let his company be run by an inbred family of southern baptists or something, who made new concept art on napkins.
 
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Melvin

Melvin

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Kuro nailed the short and to the point answer, but if you want a little bit more background and context, here you go:

After the failed kickstarter there was another round of "fundraising" that looked a lot like the kickstarter pledges except it was shady as fuck because there was basically zero accountability on VR's end. Brad took most of that money and went dirt biking instead of paying the employees that had done all of the work so far, so the devs left VR. Instead of hiring actual devs, Brad found a family of unemployed Christians with nearly zero game dev experience that for some stupid reason Brad thought were better than not having any devs at all. What they lacked in talent, they didn't make up for at all in any way whatsoever.
 
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BoozeCube

BoozeCube

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But don't worry guys things are totally on the up and up this time around. Mistakes were made and learned from a stuff, so keep that $15 a month forum action pledge coming in. Also for $1,000 you too can be an apprentice developer.
 
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orionTZ1998

orionTZ1998

Golden Squire
173
285
Melvin said:
Kuro nailed the short and to the point answer, but if you want a little bit more background and context, here you go:

After the failed kickstarter there was another round of "fundraising" that looked a lot like the kickstarter pledges except it was shady as fuck because there was basically zero accountability on VR's end. Brad took most of that money and went dirt biking instead of paying the employees that had done all of the work so far, so the devs left VR. Instead of hiring actual devs, Brad found a family of unemployed Christians with nearly zero game dev experience that for some stupid reason Brad thought were better than not having any devs at all. What they lacked in talent, they didn't make up for at all in any way whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Wait is this legitimate? And people are still giving this guy money? Holy fuck.
 
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