Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

BilboFaggins

BilboFaggins

N00b
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I'm a little behind on this topic as I blinked and a few hundred posts were created on this thread. But, I have to chime in on Silius being on the Dev team.

Silius is the reason why tons of people ultimately quit VG. I had a lot of guild mates say fuck the game and left VG solely because of Silius. First, and foremost, the guys an asshole. Secondly, the design decisions he made were immature and plain horrible. It was clear that he didn't give a fuck about the game nor the community. He was just there collecting a pay check and half aasedly making design decisions. People on my server got together and killed the npc in the game that was named after him because we hated him that much. He ended up making his in game npc unattackable because so many people were killing it.

The very well could be the reason that a lot of old VG players will choose NOT to back this kickstarter if in fact Silius is involved. People are going to be like fuck Silius and walk away.
 
Blitz

Blitz

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As far as funding goes, I would be surprised if this game wasn't able to collect funding of a few million dollars. Their are some projects on KS that I can't even understand how they have gotten the funding they have (Ever, Jane... wtf). Many MMORPGs players still originated from EQ, and Vanguard in the grand scheme of things at one point had quite a lot of buzz and intrigue even among the WoW crowd. Like him or not, Mcquaid has experience on the highest level, I would have to think most dev's working on these Kickstarter's probably don't have the talent he has. Current landscape of MMORPGs and how bland and bleak the genre looks has got to help.

Plus people love to spend money, seriously, something about just throwing money away on useless shit. Very few people seem immune to it.
 
popsicledeath

popsicledeath

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Pyros_sl said:
Making the respawn timers more random would kinda help but you'd still run in the issue that if a mob respawns during euro primetime then the US players probably don't get the kill, and if there's a bad streak on some mob that happen to drop some specific really good loot it kinda sucks you never get a chance at contesting it ever. Shared loot tables between contested raid mobs maybe?
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And if the mob respawns during US prime time then Euro players probably don't get the kill.

Bad streaks gonna happen with any system, whether it's another guild getting there first even though you've got it timed or whatever. Just like some guilds have a raid target on farm and still don't get certain drops. Random number generator and luck, imo, is part of the fun, otherwise everyone just gets tokens, etc, and bleh.

Or I guess you say fuck it and that people shouldn't be expected to get whatever they want, which is also an option.
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I don't think completely this, but close. I'm not opposed to some instanced content (or just phased like Vanguard where there were multiple instances so it was still open, still had a chance of having to plan around other guilds, but not everyone competing for one mob).

Also, more content where a guild can summon/spawn raid targets directly seems a good idea. Let them put in the work to prepare and collect for a mob, then have their crack at it.

I guess my point is they'll never successfully prevent people from playing certain times that are different from other people, so they may as well just work harder on in-world design. Because there's always going to be somebody or some guild that can get online when you can't.
 
popsicledeath

popsicledeath

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Lost Ranger_sl said:
Seems like the easier solution is to just not make servers international. If a server is NA based then that should be who is playing on it. It isn't anything personal against my different time zoned brothers. They have their own servers.
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How would that work, really?

And then what's preventing a daytime NA based raid guild from doing the exact same thing on a NA server? What about West coast guilds getting screwed because the East coasters were able to mobilized while they were still at work?

They'll have to be smarter about things in game, not just try to prevent people from playing the game from certain areas or at certain times.

Unless they're going to make servers where contested raid content is only available for certain pockets of time every day. Okay, it's 6pm Eastern, raid content is unlocking! Pretty sure nobody would like that, though.
 
Skanda

Skanda

I'm Amod too!
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Convo_sl said:
Ok before this starts...let me ask.. Who thinks this game won't be funded?
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Depends on how much he's going to ask for. If he's treating Kickstarter as just seed money then maybe he'll make it. On the other hand if he's totally reliant on what he can get from KS then he's totally fucked. There's just no way in hell he'll be able to bring in enough money from KS to fund a multi-year development cycle and have enough available to spend on tech and art each year. Look at some one the already released Kickstarted games for examples. Shadowrun Returns comes to mind, Shadowrun got about 2 million from KS and was one of the high end earners.
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
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Skanda_sl said:
Depends on how much he's going to ask for. If he's treating Kickstarter as just seed money then maybe he'll make it. On the other hand if he's totally reliant on what he can get from KS then he's totally fucked. There's just no way in hell he'll be able to bring in enough money from KS to fund a multi-year development cycle and have enough available to spend on tech and art each year. Look at some one the already released Kickstarted games for examples. Shadowrun Returns comes to mind, Shadowrun got about 2 million from KS and was one of the high end earners.
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It really all depends on his agreements with his team, what kind of physical assets they have access to etc...

Who knows, maybe his whole team is working for 'free' (deferred salaries) and they are using SOE dev facilities. *shrug*
 
Tauro

Tauro

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Please no regional servers. Maybe if its wildly successful and several 100k are playing, but no for a "niche" game. Full servers with mixed populations and a certain level of activity any time of the day is much better.
 
Ukerric

Ukerric

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mkopec_sl said:
Oh god, here we go. I was writing rpgs on my comodore 64 when you were in grade school, grandson.
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What's that newfangled C64 stuff? Graphical adventures on the TRS-80, man. That's what it takes to make a programmer out of you.
 
F

Flight

Molten Core Raider
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Success for the kickstarter will depend largely on the rewards for the different backer tiers. Look at the successful projects and :

i) firstly they plugged into something people wanted (eg Hex - CCG / MMO hybrid);

ii) they then persuaded people to pledge significantly more than the base amounts by offering one off major features to the higher tier of pledges.


I have no doubt Brad can do well at i).

ii) is slightly more difficult. In that you guys are going to have to give rewards out that you otherwise wouldn't want to. Things like permanent XP bonuses, permanent increase in % chance to find loot etc if you want people to cough up big bucks. Hex is one of the better put together kickstarters that got people rabidly buying up multiples of the higher tier pledges by exploiting this :HEX MMO Trading Card Game by Cryptozoic Entertainment KickstarterBut of course it's hard to balance not giving out OP rewards and not upsetting other players who don't get those rewards.


Going on from that I'd suggest setting the target gross pledge goal fairly low, say maybe $100k - $300k The rewards for tiers get people to open their wallet but it's the stretch goals that keep the ball rolling and get word of mouth into overdrive.

Using extra classes is a good idea for stretch goals. Use classes that people are hyped about to sell this (even classes that you are going to use anyway, but hey they are a great selling point). Blood Mage is the $500k stretch goal, Bard at $700k etc Further starter areas at $1mill. Massive flaw in many recent MMO releases has been only having one starter area.


What we know we are going to see in the kickstarter looks great :EverQuest 2 CCO launches new company and MMO | GamesIndustry InternationalOne selling point to include up there near the top :


No hard coded factions separating players from adventuring together. Separating the player base in PvE has been a nail in the coffin of multiple MMOs that have copied WoWs systems.
 
Ukerric

Ukerric

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Lithose_sl said:
Tokens just replaced experience, really. In EQ you went into dungeons mainly for the experience, especially after AA's came out.
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There's a big difference between fungible loot tokens and AA XP, and that's important to remember.

When you're doing the dungeon for loot tokens, be it LK-era various badges (didn't we get BC-era badges on each boss? My memory's hazy on that) or LDON-era tokens, the token comes in a discrete chunk. Once you've defeated the last boss, here comes the tokens. Before the boss? Nothing. After the boss (assuming there's side wings to the dungeon that you can complete)? Nothing. That's why you get the "do the dungeon, fast" urge and everyone disbands, sometimes 2s after the boss dies. There's exactly ONE mob that's important in the whole dungeon, and that's the final boss. Everything else is unimportant.

Now, in the AA-XP era, every trash mob was as important as the boss. Even more, if you're concerned by XP, since trash mobs usually died faster than named ones. Every side hall in a dungeon yields as much XP as the main hall. Every named is as important as the other ones. In fact, if all of you have every drop you need from the "main boss", the side bosses may be more important in fact.

This is what token-based loot created. And it didn't begin with WoW, you could see it in LDON: as soon as the dungeon objective was complete, people ran back and left and restarted, rather than "finish" the dungeon.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

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Tuco_sl said:
That being said it's all up to the information in the kickstarter and marketing to see it get funded. Once information comes out I expect many people on here will be pretty disappointed because it doesn't match what we want but that's a baseless prediction.
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Given the wide range of expectations here it's a given that some are gonna be more or less dissapointed. The real question is will the people that find the project to be "not for them" leave the thread or go into bitter-troll mode?
 
M

MrGlory_sl

shitlord
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Flight_sl said:
No hard coded factions separating players from adventuring together. Separating the player base in PvE has been a nail in the coffin of multiple MMOs that have copied WoWs systems.
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Totally agree with this point IMO ESO will suffer greatly cause of this one decision. Although I also agree with your stretch goals views.

The main thing will be to spread the word out to the correct audience and if the KS is starting this week then they need to go into overdrive and put the ideas out ASAP.
 
M

MrGlory_sl

shitlord
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I am fairly un-educated with this as well hence why I asked here to see if the more tech inclined peeps had more info on this, if nothing else should be interesting.
 
F

forehead

Trakanon Raider
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Speaking of grouping and exp; I really hope killing a mob takes more than 4 seconds of going through your rotation once.
 
Bruman

Bruman

Golden Squire
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Forehead_sl said:
Speaking of grouping and exp; I really hope killing a mob takes more than 4 seconds of going through your rotation once.
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I hope it doesn't have whack-a-mole / rotation based damage in the first place. Pretty sure it will though. I thought even VG was too much of constantly spamming buttons (although I only played one class). It had cool stuff, but still left no time to be social while fighting.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

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God Draegan one could think this is your first day. In a fantasy game you sell *dragons*. Just ask Dumar about spaceships and witness the scream you can hear on the moon.
 
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