Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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Nirgon

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The apple doesn't fall far from the TV

See u in Terminus

(more seriously I hope granny Draico is OK and u boycott nuBlizzard)
 
  • 1Worf
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Mr. Sox

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I watched jahlon video the other day he raised a good question. Someone sent me a copy of the agreement prior to the new website.they deleted mine
 
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Mr. Sox

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VR could not produce a copy of my pledge agreement claiming it was listed on the website instead they sent yOu a copy of agreement in you email
 
Nirgon

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Mr. Sox said:
I am ready to talk to ftc.
Click to expand...


go-get-her.gif
 
  • 4Worf
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Daidraco

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BoozeCube BoozeCube - please call 911 for me if I ever start rambling like this. Ive very clearly started to have a seizure, a stroke, or an overdose.
 
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Rezz

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So with the depth of classes and abilities that they have, and the gameplay that has been presented, do we have an actual MMO on our hands or a session based game? No long term capability makes me think session. Is Pantheon aiming to be a session based game like Icarus?

Is the design hope that players will cache data locally and then just log into Pantheon servers to access it?
 
yerm

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A pantheon-rust with character leveling alongside the typical tradeskillish progression these games use plus of course climbing could be cool.
 
Pharone

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Neranja said:
Old school FPS games (Quake, Half-Life etc.) used to work this way, which is how things like CTF, Team Fortress and Counterstrike could even develop. But then you had to have a "server browser" like GameSpy, and people also hated the local server admin powertripping and accusing everyone of cheating that was better than him.

Since then even FPS titles like Battlefield have moved to some form of permanent progression, and you can only do that on "officia"l servers. Which killed private servers. You can only rent servers from accredited server providers.


Modern anti-cheat mechanisms include scanning the user's computer. For example Blizzards watchdog scans the titles of the windows that are open while you play. Even old school games like EverQuest scan which DLL files get injected into the game process, which is how Daybreak bans people who try to use MQ2 on progression servers. This can ramp up on the technical scale to full-fledged rootkit level of anti-cheat systems, e.g. with Valorant.

I sure as hell wouldn't want any private server operator to collect any data from my computer.
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When I said that it was up tot he user who owns the server to police their servers, I meant from a GM perspective. All of the anti-cheat software built in to the game would only deliver data to the company's servers and setup flags for the server owner to use if they chose to use it. In other words, if the company put in anti-cheat code to detect if you are using MQ2 (as an example for Everquest), all the owner of the server would be able to see is that XYZ account has been flagged for using MQ2 on xyz date/time. They would have no access to any of the raw data from the players computer.

If I was running a server (and I would because this is what I actually want in a MMORPG), I would not be checking any of the anti-cheat flags for my server because to me policing cheating on my server is more about being active on my server and being able to detect unwanted player behavior by actually observing it myself. I don't need anti-cheat code to tell someone is cheating if I see them playing 24/7 365 days a year in the same camp. It's pretty fucking obvious to me that person is cheating. That's the kind of policing I would be taking action against on my server.
 
Daidraco

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Szeth said:
So if I can only play 3 days a week, and bot the other 4 on the same schedule that's fine?
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That also lets me know he's never played BDO and seen how long people stay in camps, there. "I FINALLY KILLED A MILLION CENTAURS GUYZZZZZZ!"
 
Mr. Sox

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Remember when eq got called out when they were scanning computer for illegal programs Zaffron had to apologize publicly in. Washington Post 2001ish. DB has a way inro people's computer now without you knowing. Sean Farrens was a member of guild.
 
Mr. Sox

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Noone stops pantheon devs from cheating. You expect some making $10 a hour not go to work for the gold farmers for more money
 
Nirgon

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Daidraco said:
That also lets me know he's never played BDO and seen how long people stay in camps, there. "I FINALLY KILLED A MILLION CENTAURS GUYZZZZZZ!"
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Rather chill with bros at the centaur spawn than do daily quest chores solo for the 33rd time
 
Neranja

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Pharone said:
When I said that it was up tot he user who owns the server to police their servers, I meant from a GM perspective. All of the anti-cheat software built in to the game would only deliver data to the company's servers and setup flags for the server owner to use if they chose to use it. In other words, if the company put in anti-cheat code to detect if you are using MQ2 (as an example for Everquest), all the owner of the server would be able to see is that XYZ account has been flagged for using MQ2 on xyz date/time. They would have no access to any of the raw data from the players computer.
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Sadly, this is not how modern anti-cheat systems work. First of all, anti-cheat is not a product, but a process and a constant cat and mouse game between both sides.

Second, it boils down to a data problem:
  • The company providing the product has to have servers to handle all the anti-cheat data from the players. If they are already offloading all the game end server stuff to people running servers, why would they pay for the anti-cheat servers themselves? Especially when you have a box price and not a subscription, like you proposed.
  • Data from Anti-Cheat is rarely a "yes/no" variable, but a gradual measure of player behavior. Even if you don't detect the exact cheat itself (like int he case of MQ2 loaded into the game), you can almost always detect repeated robotic movements (especially with waypoints), or strange behavior (like warping or getting stuck in geometry). This requires the processing of a lot of data. Data, which (ironically) with your architecture is already sent from the player to the server, but not to the company.
  • Anti-cheat works best if the bans are time decoupled, making it harder to pinpoint cause and effect for the cheat developers. And you just can't trust server operators all to play for the "good guys". Because if I wanted to develop a cheat for such a game, I'd set up my own server to test if any of my cheats trigger the detection.

Pharone said:
to me policing cheating on my server is more about being active on my server and being able to detect unwanted player behavior by actually observing it myself.
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Is this some "fly on the wall" fetish? Personally I couldn't imagine telling players of a game I developed that "they are playing it wrong." Because if they are, then this is almost always a design and not server operation issue.
 
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