Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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Yeah you'd have to have a real small beans shop for $75k to be more of a problem than 7% revenue.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
Wasteland 2 and Kerbal Space Program I think are the two biggest non mobile games made with the engine. I don't think there is an MMO that isn't browser based that is using it.
Among the titles:
- Deus Ex: The Fall
- Might & Magic X Legacy
- R?publique
- Wasteland 2
- Dead Trigger 2
- Kerbal Space Program
- Call of Duty?: Strike Team
- Endless Space
- Shroud of the Avatar
A longer list may be found here:Unity - Game List
There were a lot of reasons we chose Unity, and they all had to do with the positives of the engine, not the negatives of others. It simply came down to the fact that it was an engine that enabled us to get to work quickly with a small team and deploy to multiple platforms with minimal issue.
I'd guess Brad could pick up the phone and call and get a better deal simply due to his background. Hero engine took off after SWTOR, and I guarantee EA isn't paying them 7% off the top. They'd get even more free pub with this game.
I don't see any MMOs using Unity, but given the teams background I doubt the engine will be that big a deal, although I think Hero would make far more sense, since it's built for multiplayer unlike Unity.
Lithose
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The problem is, I don't think Ut or anyone remembers the context of the original post. Here it is, I'll highlight the pertinent portion.
As for the rest of Ut's point: As someone who helps investors regularly, most kickstarters arenotgood investments and are completely irrational. That being said, you can't really look at a kick starter the same way you look at normal capital investments. The risk people assume is usually pretty small, because the investors are diversified. There is actually a whole theory of economics now that wants to do away with lending and fiat capitalization--and move to a crowd-funding investment system. The reason why that's appealing is because it doesn't reward people as much for large capital stores and rewards them more for making wise investments---but that's a topic for the political thread.
Anyway. Ut's overall view is perfectly rational, asking people to invest without a prospectus, evidence and other things is essentially asking them for money on faith, no bank or private lenders do this--it takes months of investigation and assurances to get money flowing in regular investing. However, I think he's bitten onto something here that is a bit silly and really just a representation that Brad is a developer, not a coder/engineer. I'm not making excuses, everyone should be wary but again, this topic seems a bit silly.
He didn't know off hand, he made that pretty clear. Everyone who is complaining has been focusing on the second statement. As anyone who works for a firm with a PR department can tell you, this is why workers often aren't allowed to speak with the public without a script--because things get taken out of context very quickly. In this case, Brad made it pretty clear he isn't the engineer and he deferred the selection to someone else, and didn't recall the precise reason. But all that's remembered is the second post where he says "yep, we couldn't get the source code because of X or Y barrier".
As for the rest of Ut's point: As someone who helps investors regularly, most kickstarters arenotgood investments and are completely irrational. That being said, you can't really look at a kick starter the same way you look at normal capital investments. The risk people assume is usually pretty small, because the investors are diversified. There is actually a whole theory of economics now that wants to do away with lending and fiat capitalization--and move to a crowd-funding investment system. The reason why that's appealing is because it doesn't reward people as much for large capital stores and rewards them more for making wise investments---but that's a topic for the political thread.
Anyway. Ut's overall view is perfectly rational, asking people to invest without a prospectus, evidence and other things is essentially asking them for money on faith, no bank or private lenders do this--it takes months of investigation and assurances to get money flowing in regular investing. However, I think he's bitten onto something here that is a bit silly and really just a representation that Brad is a developer, not a coder/engineer. I'm not making excuses, everyone should be wary but again, this topic seems a bit silly.
Muligan
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Bottom line. proof will be in the pudding. I just think from Brad's perspective he better handle the PR side of things very delicately until the KS is funded. As cynical and unforgiving everyone appears to be, he really does not have much room for error.
I don't see what everyone is so up in arms about. He's just asking for support. He's not taking us hostage. So what if people want to throw a little cash his way. We probably would with a box copy anyway. You can donate $100 get two digital downloads and some perks. What in the world do you have to lose? Plus, donating gives you a little bit of clout to speak your mind. I know you can anyway but by using Kickstarter you have to give some consideration to your investors and honestly, I think Brad will within reason.
I don't see what everyone is so up in arms about. He's just asking for support. He's not taking us hostage. So what if people want to throw a little cash his way. We probably would with a box copy anyway. You can donate $100 get two digital downloads and some perks. What in the world do you have to lose? Plus, donating gives you a little bit of clout to speak your mind. I know you can anyway but by using Kickstarter you have to give some consideration to your investors and honestly, I think Brad will within reason.
Muligan
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I don't know how many times people have said that Brad just needs to be an idea guy and remains an arms length of any game. They have always thought his gift and talents were primarily within the realm of being the dreamer and visionary. Now he's acting like one and everyone is crucifying him for not knowing every aspect of the process. Remember, he's not the CEO or Project Manager. He's the dreamer and it's all about his team making his dream a reality under his supervision.
Your reasons are probably great. The 7% profit cut IS a good reason. I think people are worried because up until this point it hasn't been used for an MMO yet.
You all are blinded by your knowledge..
The systems most important to a classic style MMO can be done with a classic engine.. the fact they are using an engine created in the past 5? 10? years should be exciting.
They could use the old EQ1 engine and create a game that satisfies. What modern MMOs lack isnt due to the engines.. its not all about technology, and its also not about the business. We've been giving money to large companies with strong business plans for years and gotten nothing special in return.
Focus on the vision, the team, and the past worlds created.. not the tech or anything else.
The systems most important to a classic style MMO can be done with a classic engine.. the fact they are using an engine created in the past 5? 10? years should be exciting.
They could use the old EQ1 engine and create a game that satisfies. What modern MMOs lack isnt due to the engines.. its not all about technology, and its also not about the business. We've been giving money to large companies with strong business plans for years and gotten nothing special in return.
Focus on the vision, the team, and the past worlds created.. not the tech or anything else.
Rumor is that Steam is ending Greenlighting to change to it's own Steam Kickstarter , could be an eventual good second source of funding if/when that happens as obviously a huge built in audience. Of course the devil's in the details of how Steam will be handling the financial expectations of such a situation.
Convo
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I don't know your background. Do you have experience with these engines or it more b/c nobody has done an MMO with unity yet? Serious question b/c I don't know what the risk is that they are taking? It sounds like the team is pretty confident in what the engine offers and its ability to make an MMO.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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If they used the old EQ1 engine the programmers would probably spend half the time refactoring the bard class and getting rangers to auto-attack correctly with their bows!
Furious
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Nester
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7% of REVENUE (Gross) off the top huge, lets say you run with a 20% margin, which I bet they would love to have. Paying 7% off the top reduces you to a 13% margin you have now given up 35% of your over all profit just for an engine that in all reality is not that great. I can not think of a larger deal breaker.
Jimbolini
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Furious
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