Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Scayre_sl said:

I think a more interesting setup for warriors would be to be able to don the leathers and be a skulking thief or strap on the metal and just be a mercenary like tank. I like the idea of following old class paradigms but it would be nice to see Pantheon change them up a bit.

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I am okay with these sort of "growing into your subclass" sort of things but TBH in every game I've played that had it I can think of offhand it just felt kinda stupid and pointless. SWTOR is the most recent example I can think of. In a few cases the sub classes were really distinct i.e. Sith Assassin vs Sith Sorcerer but mostly it just felt like you had classes with shared similarities that only really added to the overall blandness on top of them already being copies of WoW classes.

Even in WoW with the way specs worked in the early days. You just ended up in a lot of cases with these characters that were bland and boring until they hit level 40 and got their spec defining ability (Mortal Strike anyone?). From a "fun" standpoint the change they made to let you JUMP into playing that spec at level 10 was pretty good. Even if it just added to the overall dumbing down of character growth.

What I'd rather see is classes that are fully defined and distinct with the "sub class" options just being flavor rather than being the actual "class". For instance a cleric in plate can tank a little and still heal pretty good but it's still a cleric. A cleric in cloth can't take quite the beating but they might be able to heal a little better. Rather than WoW spec trees where your priest is HOLY or DISC and can only heal or you spec SHADOW and can only really DPS worth a shit. Honestly I wish they'd just ditch that shit period and go with EQ or VG classes that are each wholly unique. I think letting a class fill multiple roles is a huge step toward bland and boring ass character classes as an end result. *shrug*

Tannlin_sl said:

That's pretty awesome, because I like playing MMOs. I think you're all pretty awesome because I like talking about MMOs. Fuck it, the world is a pretty awesome place, it's enough for me to stop being irritated at Ut.

Thanks all!


And Tiv --- dude, thanks so much for all those links. Every former or current EQ player should at least know about this Kickstarter before it's over.

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Agreed, and I like your attitude! We'll have to group in 2017 when Pantheon's all growns up and everyone's having fun storming the castle.

Dumar_sl said:

I was interviewed by SOE. By lots of game companies (well, by their outsourced recruiters). I don't see the issue. I mean, if SOE is backing this game, I don't really care in the end as long as I get what I want. As the industry stands now, this project is the only chance of that. It's worth the risk.

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/yes


And you have to imagine what will happen. SOE either funds or buys pantheon. Has Brad discussed RMT ? I certainly hope we don't see SOE style RMT in this game and gambling.

Tiv_sl said:

Agreed, and I like your attitude! We'll have to group in 2017 when Pantheon's all growns up and everyone's having fun storming the castle.

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Do I get to add in Billy Crystal "It would take a miracle!"

Elidroth_sl said:

SOEIS NOTfunding this project. Brad's conversations with Smed about the project were to POSSIBLY license the use of the Forgelight engine, which he ultimately decided against and instead went with Unity. There is nothing shady about what Brad is doing. He and a bunch of talented people got laid off from SOE & Trion and are trying to make a game. End of story.

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This is the most interesting part of the thread so far. Given the hooks to SOE and the friendship between Smed and Brad I'm really curious why they wouldn't give him a deal and support for this, especially since there are probably people looking for work near SOE who could use a job at VR. That's disappointing. If the game takes off they have a tech investment that could recoup. If it doesn't, they haven't spent any money, they've possibly made a small amount of coin from licensing, and they've helped train talent nearby regarding their tools whom they could rehire if EQN takes over the world as planned.

p.s. Nice smackdown of Ut. I'm not impressed with the KS, personally, and feel it was done poorly but I appreciate the feedback and respect those coming into the lions den. No need for bullshit attacks from supposed 'insiders'.

I'd add if SoE were behind this they would of at least lent Brad the engine..

Not a fan of subclassing. Don't understand the point.

Dumar_sl said:

Not a fan of subclassing. Don't understand the point.

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TBH, I prefer flat classes as well. But I'll wait for the PC gamer reveal.

Subclassing keeps the base of a class and adds more variety. More options are a good thing.

Aradune_sl said:

Sorry, was being interviewed by the NSA... I'm back.

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hahahahahahahaha

jilena_sl said:

Do I get to add in Billy Crystal "It would take a miracle!"

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Haha, indeed! It wouldn't be epic fantasy without Miracle Max!

So glad someone got the reference, was hesitant about going out on that limb .

In a game so heavily focused on grouping it might be neccessary now a days. The good part is you don't have to partake if you don't want.. I'm betting stats will dictate how good you are at a particular class.. So there could be trade off to it?

Gecko_sl said:

Subclassing keeps the base of a class and adds more variety. More options are a good thing.

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Eh WoW talent trees blew. However, if its being done due to a cost issues I'll deal with it.

I don't get it ... It's Brad and it's everquest all over again ... But the magic is gone you see, you already banged the virgin the 1st wedding night. And it was good.
Good luck to Pantheon, really, but it will be only another heroic fantasy MMO probably, because the market is flooded by those, 82.8 % actually.
So, old concepts, old ideas, "veteran" devs, going for ANOTHER heroic fantasy MMO and promising the new dawn of the genre ? I simply can't buy it.

jilena_sl said:

I think letting a class fill multiple roles is a huge step toward bland and boring ass character classes as an end result. *shrug*

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Uhhh, just no. Go play GW2 and get back to me on how great that works.

NoShitDude_sl said:

I don't get it ... It's Brad and it's everquest all over again ... But the magic is gone you see, you already banged the virgin the 1st wedding night. And it was good.
Good luck to Pantheon, really, but it will be only another heroic fantasy MMO probably, because the market is flooded by those, 82.8 % actually.
So, old concepts, old ideas, "veteran" devs, going for ANOTHER heroic fantasy MMO and promising the new dawn of the genre ? I simply can't buy it.

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Then don't buy it. The point is that the old concepts were actually the right concepts and they were thrown out by newer mmos, if that doesn't get you interested no prob. A dozen dozen threads on other mmos to look at.

Gecko_sl said:

Subclassing keeps the base of a class and adds more variety. More options are a good thing.

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It also makes it exponentially harder to balance. Every sub-class has to be treated as its own class. I'm much more a fan of very specific and unique classes in order to not be a one-size-fits-all.

Gecko_sl said:

This is the most interesting part of the thread so far. Given the hooks to SOE and the friendship between Smed and Brad I'm really curious why they wouldn't give him a deal and support for this, especially since there are probably people looking for work near SOE who could use a job at VR. That's disappointing. If the game takes off they have a tech investment that could recoup. If it doesn't, they haven't spent any money, they've possibly made a small amount of coin from licensing, and they've helped train talent nearby regarding their tools whom they could rehire if EQN takes over the world as planned.

p.s. Nice smackdown of Ut. I'm not impressed with the KS, personally, and feel it was done poorly but I appreciate the feedback and respect those coming into the lions den. No need for bullshit attacks from supposed 'insiders'.

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They (SOE) may see it the same as a lot of others do, that there is a ton of risk for something that's not even conceptualized on a design doc or anything like that. It may be no big deal to drop 45, but I don't SOE would only be dropping 45 if you get my drift. Besides, they know the state of the last game Brad left and it's one of those situations where he has to prove it now, no more benefit of the doubt.

Elidroth_sl said:

It also makes it exponentially harder to balance. Every sub-class has to be treated as its own class. I'm much more a fan of very specific and unique classes in order to not be a one-size-fits-all.

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Yeah, be interesting to see what's going on - really subclassing or just flavor. Remember Brad's 90/10 comment.