Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

mkopec_sl said:

Thats pretty much what im thinking at this point. There simply is not enough interest in a game like this.

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Not to mention... But I think SOE is slowly winning over the oldschool crowd with regards to EQnext.

Merlin_sl said:

I would like to see how they intend to fund the game. Brad was honest about needing atleast$8 mil, so ok, I like that honesty. But if we have 10 devs, lets just call them professionals, divided by roughly $700,000, minus the cost of setting up a studio, purchasing computers, renting an office etc...What does that leave for salary's? So even assuming this gets funded, which is a ridiculous longshot at this point, what happens in 6 months when they run out of the kickstarter money? Is that it? They move out of the offices and everyone goes their separate ways? Game over? I need some kind of reassurance that things don't go tits up in 6 months and my pledge is just vaporfunding.

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That's what gets me. They do not currently have the people to make the game. The "guys this is just for initial funding to be able to start the studio!" is a horrible thing to put your money towards.

Vaporfunding seems an applicable term.

mkopec_sl said:

YOure just speculating here with fictitious numbers you made up in your head. Im sure they have a business plan of some kind and Im sure they are not stupid enough to make 800k worth of promises without thinking it through first.

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I can't tell if this is sarcasm you're directing towards Merlin, or a real thing. He didn't make up numbers - the $700k is their rough-estimate profits from KS if it funds, plus the 10 people they currently have lined up (of which 1 is an actual fucking developer), and Brad has said himself multiple times that he thinks it's around $8 million to make. They have no plan past that, other than 'cross fingers and hope a publisher funds the rest'. Or else we'd have heard about it.

Arctic_Slicer_sl said:

Richard Garriot was able to get Shroud of the Avatar funded despite the baggage from the Tabula Rasa fiasco, his termination from NCSoft and him suing them to eventually win $28m a mere 2 years before asking for money on kickstarer. If a shady guy like Garriot(seriously $28 million look it up) can get his game funded on Kickstarter then McQuaid can to.

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That's because they worked and had a rough prototype to show off at the start of the Kickstarter. Proving that they actually had the assembled talent ready to go and working - not this "check out our word docs, we typed them up last night!".

Someone on SA (I think?) said it best - it's "Sweet, we got this great idea! Now if we can just get a team of developers we'll be all set!" idiot way to approach things.

I'd love to play another Brad designed MMO, but the only thing they've proven is they're over their heads.

arallu_sl said:

That, or interest in funding it. I have mentioned it to a few of my friends and they were like "eh, I'll try it if it comes out".

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Yeah; that's what I get to. I know lots of people in real life that would normally jump on this kind of game but the only one I've got a pledge from so far was my own brother......

Bruman; isn't that supposed to be the point of kickstarter? Someone has a cool idea puts up a pitch on what their vision is and ask people to crowd fund it. At least that's how I always understood it.

lysis_sl said:

The next big thing, from a big publisher or not, will probably be from some dudes we don't know yet. The guys SOE will be copying next. Like the community that invented Dikus.

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You mean like Minecraft?

Quaid_sl said:

Not to mention... But I think SOE is slowly winning over the oldschool crowd with regards to EQnext.

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Thats only happening cause there's so little real info known about EQN that the hope has started to creep back into their head that SOE will come to their senses and design it for them (i.e. Smed's comment that they're not making games for kids anymore).

Edit: Or that somehow no levels, collecting classes, and multi-classing will be a fulfilling long-term game experiance with StoryBricks letting them RP with NPC's finally for realz. lol

Quaid_sl said:

Not to mention... But I think SOE is slowly winning over the oldschool crowd with regards to EQnext.

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With what? Lack of other options?

Eqn will be nothing like Pantheon. There is plenty of room for both to exist and as a gamer I hope they both do. Brad knows what EQN is. He wouldn't be doing what he's doing if they were even close.

Big Flex_sl said:

With what? Lack of other options?

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You might be right.

arallu_sl said:

Thats only happening cause there's so little real info known about EQN that the hope has started to creep back into their head that SOE will come to their senses and design it for them (i.e. Smed's comment that they're not making games for kids anymore).

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In my opinion all this talk about Pantheon, CU, SoA, etc. is helping EQNext more than anything. Why? Because it has the name. I'm not saying they are winning anyone over but if you hear all this McQuaid/Pantheon talk, it is only going to lead people back to EQ. Not in a subscriber sense but lurking and browsing around. Honestly, with all my Georgeson hate, I still think Year of Everquest and some of their marketing is very well done. I personally feel it looks good and it makes me think that if nothing else they are taking their MMO to some place new. It may blow up in their face but I have no way in knowing because some of their ideas have never been done (at least in regards to their ideas being paired with others).

"Undead Warlord" Concept Art revealed... (sorry couldn't resist)

Arctic_Slicer_sl said:

Bruman; isn't that supposed to be the point of kickstarter? Someone has a cool idea puts up a pitch on what their vision is and ask people to crowd fund it. At least that's how I always understood it.

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I guess it can be? But I don't think that's the main use. The person(s) who want their vision to come to life should be able to make that vision come to life. The funding allows a variety of things:
-People to quit their day jobs to focus on whatever Their Vision is
-To show if Their Vision has enough to interest to even be worth doing
-To possibly acquire more help - but not the core skill set needed to produce Their Vision

But the core person/team behind the KS, given enough reasonable time, should be able to produce it. They have not proven with their Kickstarter that they have it. We can't even get art with the class / race drops, nothing in-game, the dungeon designer has zero experience with Unity and thinks that "it's good for MMOs, I guess, maybe, I dunno". Hell, it seems like before this Kickstarter, they still didn't even have design docs solidified and cleaned up.

New Update:Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen by Visionary Realms, Inc. Kickstarter

Muligan_sl said:

In my opinion all this talk about Pantheon, CU, SoA, etc. is helping EQNext more than anything. Why? Because it has the name. I'm not saying they are winning anyone over but if you hear all this McQuaid/Pantheon talk, it is only going to lead people back to EQ. Not in a subscriber sense but lurking and browsing around. Honestly, with all my Georgeson hate, I still think Year of Everquest and some of their marketing is very well done. I personally feel it looks good and it makes me think that if nothing else they are taking their MMO to some place new. It may blow up in their face but I have no way in knowing because some of their ideas have never been done (at least in regards to their ideas being paired with others).

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I disagree. EQN has a pretty wide range of public awareness in terms of MMO enthusiasts, hell even Minecraft people. It takes a very special type of neckbeard to know what the fuck Pantheon is. If you know about Pantheon: Fall of the Fallen, chances are you already knew about EQN.

Also - I know I'm being super negative, and I'm sorry for that. I love Brad's game ideas. I love almost all the ideas they've talked about. I dig their artist - even though most of what they've shown is recycled art. I dig Vu's existing dungeon designs. I'd love to see these people involved in an MMO.

But you don't give your money for ideas. That's kind of a number one rule of start-ups / investments / entrepreneurship. Ideas are a dime-a-dozen. Everyone that thinks they have some 'amazing unique idea' - guess what, you don't. A billion other people have already thought of it.

All that matters is you (or your team's) ability to execute. Execution is the difference between Anarachy Online and World of Warcraft. Or any [not-successful-product-that-noone-remembers] and [the current market leader]. And they have not shown their ability to execute with this Kickstarter. They've shown exactly the opposite, actually.

I have no faith in SOE at all. If you do happen to enjoy a game from them, you can expect it to probably change to suit a larger audience they're chasing. Just like the poor RPGer early adopters of EQ before it went viral in the Quake community. I say that as one of those hyper-competitive Quake guys who fucked up their role playing experience. But later, SOE did the same to me and chased an even larger group.

I think EQN will probably be different than previous SOE titles because it's a strategic title for the PS4. It should be very sound technically and feature SCE production quality. But that also means it's going to have to be accessible to a large, general audience. And like before, SOE will cater to them.

Kickstander: Only Around A Third of Kickstarted Video Game Projects Fully Deliver To Their Backers | Evil As A Hobby

Big Flex_sl said:

I disagree. EQN has a pretty wide range of public awareness in terms of MMO enthusiasts, hell even Minecraft people. It takes a very special type of neckbeard to know what the fuck Pantheon is. If you know about Pantheon: Fall of the Fallen, chances are you already knew about EQN.

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My point is with the people that may have been on the fence or thought that Pantheon may quench their true MMO thirst. I think Pantheon's audience is a bit harder for EQNext to infiltrate. However, I think Pantheon and other games that keep referencing the EQ's, DAoC, and even D&D stuff of old are just going to cause be to take a second look at games like EQNext. Especially if you think something like Pantheon isn't going to be worth your personal radar. People are going to want something and something relatively soon. Even if the KS makes it, Pantheon is still 3 years (give or take) from making it to our computers. People are going to find out they like or dislike a lot of things in that timeframe.

Blackwulf_sl said:

Maybe there aren't as many people as you think that want this kind of game. I'm in for 20 bucks, but frankly not too excited about some of the nostalgia with regard to EQ. A lot of things in that game really weren't fun; there just wasn't an option.

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I'm in it for vanguard nostalgia, as I totally missed the EQ boat. Brad said on twitter yesterday he would possibly consider putting some sort of Vanguard memorial or nod, in Pantheon.

I'm gonna have a really hard time letting Vanguard go. At least all you EQ enthusiasts will always have your emu to run to and relive the good ole days, should SOE ever sunset EQ.
I will have nothing but youtube videos and a folder of screen shots after July. I feel like I'm watching my best friend sit on death row and there's nothing I can do about it. /end drama

So that is one of the big reasons I am backing Pantheon and hoping it ends up being the game he's selling us.