Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
I totally see what you're getting at, but that sounds borderline sketchy. It almost seems like it runs the risk of making CC irrelevant. I think early era WoW where certain classes were kind of "combo" classes. Mages were DPS, but also function as CC. That slowly evolved towards making CC irrelevant, and shifted the focus on maximizing DPS.
Then again, that could have a lot to do with encounter design making CC irrelevant. It just strikes a nerve when things like enchanters and psionicists (my favorite classes) were considered unimportant, as was any action that did not directly inflict damage on an enemy.
All those little support spells that made non-trinity classes so fun just vanished in the throng of those who worshipped DPS.
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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Sorry.. I meant to further elaborate. I agree with you. I tossed in the DPS deal as an intention to separate that if you are not a tank, you are a DPS. I don't want a Ranger or a Bard that has some type of stance or AA line to suffice as a tank.
I'll go even to say that beyond CC I want slowers back. I want anything back that is a role.. a specialized role to make every class unique and necessary in groups and/or raids.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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No that doesn't really work, and one thing hated about WoW. You just end up with a bunch of hybrids. What you can do is design classes such that they have secondary roles that allow them to do a half assed job in that secondary role and have large (6 man) groups so players don't feel the need to exclude classes.
Example. Warrior taunt abilities are defined as 100. Ranger dps abilities are defined as 100. Warriors could get DPS abilities equal to 50-60% of a Ranger. Ranger could get a taunt ability that generates 50% of the hate of a Warrior (I'm ignoring hate generated by dps for this example). So in a 6 man group a 2nd warrior can act as just a cut rate dps if need be. And of course gear factors into this as well. I recognize this is totally obvious.
But I really hate the respecting idea - I could live with something like stance (warrior would have defensive and offensive stances yada yada yada as long as it still results in half assed secondary role and doesn't turn a ranger into a tank equivalent or vice versa)
you need class interdependence and respecs takes that away.
Furry
WoW Office
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best advice. If anyone tried to make an mmo based on the advice of this forum, it'd likely result in a horrific feature creep disaster.
There are tons of decent ideas for a direction that mmos can go in, but aradune should obviously focus on what he wants and look to make that as polished as possible.
Hey Brad, welcome back. Met the wife playing EQ so thank you as well =)
-Oculus Rift support on the radar?
-1st person view or adjustable?
Looking forward to your game.
-Oculus Rift support on the radar?
-1st person view or adjustable?
Looking forward to your game.
Ehhh. I've gotten sick of this shit, since 'optimal' builds change by the patch. And then there's the times where you play a healer or such, but want to switch to a build that's better do other stuff like farming materials or whatever. In fact, I don't even want skill trees or specs anymore. They just feature 2-3 required builds to choose from depending on what you want to do. Just give us straight up classes with all the features included, and something like AA instead.
Hell I'd be happy with the old EQ classes, just as they were, I miss the days when everyone wasn't amazing at everything. Bring back unbalanced unique classes.
Also bring back the EQ style faction system. I loved working faction, and being able to go places I probably should not have been, or getting cool items like the Overthere Hammer. Was also cool to kill a mob for the first time, and see who you pissed off, or not.
Also bring back the EQ style faction system. I loved working faction, and being able to go places I probably should not have been, or getting cool items like the Overthere Hammer. Was also cool to kill a mob for the first time, and see who you pissed off, or not.
I agree to a point. I spend months leveling up a tank in the Velious era, but I remember pulling one night in KC and when I logged off I sat there and said to myself, "you know what. This is boring me to fucking death". I never played him again and rolled up a wizzy and never looked back. While I don't agree with being able to spec in and out of classes at will, something needs to happen for the tank classes to make them fun and interesting to play.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Rescues with OT/DT in Vanguard were pretty fun. And VG Paladins were just flat out OP.
Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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Tanks ARE fun to play, I love them. And considering only roughly 1/6th of the playerbase (or quite a bit less, given some people like soloing, non-combat, etc) need to be tanks, then it kind of works out that you, and others, don't like them.
My MMO experience is basically only EQ so I've nearly no experience with specing/respecing. In EQ, as a cleric for example, you could be a healer by using heal spells and you could farm stuff by using damage spells. Why does there have to be specing/respecing at all?
To me, the concept of visiting an NPC and completely changing your character is just horrifically immersion-breaking. Why not just visit an NPC and pay 99 cents and get a buff that makes you do 5x more damage? Persistence gives way to immersion.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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Perhaps steal the Riftstalker from RIFT. That was a killer tank class... and hell DK in VG is pretty damn good too.. Honestly, VG classes = win. Its that simple.
Furry
WoW Office
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The main role that tanks typically have in current mmos is setting the pace of the group. Even in eq1 as a tank I would focus on setting the pace of the group by doing fast paced and roaming pulls. Most people people consider this awful and boring for whatever reason and don't play tanks. I for one enjoy it so thoroughly I could play a tank that has only 1 skill (PULL MORE).
I'm with BankBank on this one. Please keep that re-spec/re-soul/I can do anything bullshit outta here. I don't want this to be EQNext, or RIFT, or Neverwinter, or anything else that is currently available.
Furry
WoW Office
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Riftstalker is definitely one of the cooler class ideas ive seen from an mmo recently. So much mobility in its own way, with such a high skill cap to do cool things
There's plenty of ideas for classes out there, and I agree that vanguard showed some great creativity with its classes. That said, there were too many classes/races in vanguard at release. The game would of been at a fine place with half as many options. If you could come out with 6 classes as cool in concept as the riftwalker or bloodmage, I think people would be plenty happy with those options.
Most MMOs since wow have used diabloesque talent trees giving classes at least two potential roles. Like a wow druid could do dps, healing, or tanking depending on the spec. The problem is that builds change a lot due to buffs/nerfs and require you to go to a trainer and pay cash to respec your character, and builds are also gear dependant. So it was super lame to be a healer priest for 3 raids a week when you could be a dps priest and melt faces the rest of the time while still healing groups ok. I think that's what tuco meant by on-the-fly respecs. I agree that I would much prefer straight up single classes and no skill tree bullshit (just give me all of my skills at once, don't make me min-max between 2-3 options), though I wouldn't mind some role overlap.
Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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And yet, classes/skills/talents etc changing constantly is a relatively new thing. That shit didn't happen nearly as often in EQ, they were quite comfortable having unique classes with strengths and weaknesses, and some classes having anemic player representation. Then along came WoW, where they fucking redesign every class completely EVERY FUCKING PATCH almost.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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well the beauty of this game is Brad has a very target audience in mind.. There will be things you don't agree with but we need to get back to playing within the constraints of a game. Make the best of what you have in a class. That's where niche MMO's should shine. I think the release of EQN will be a big help in regards to a project like Brads. You bounce between both games and get the best of both worlds so to speak.. One will be very focused(most likely) with a trinity design and the other very flexible.