Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

tad10_sl said:

dcuo, eqnext, I thought wildstar too. Others I'm forgetting (aoc?)

Click to expand...

DCUO's combat was amazing. A close second to TERA in my opinion.
We don't really know anything about EQNext because who know what will change when the actual game is ready.
Wildstar has no autoattack, but they make you simulate autoattack by pressing the 1 key a million times in a fight so it's even worse.
AOC has button presses for autoattacks.

Who cares about DCUO or AOC anyway. When you say "plenty of games" you're implying "plenty of games worth playing" and non of them are really worth playing.

Quaid_sl said:

What was so wrong with allowing unusual race/class combos?

I liked my Halfling Warrior with high base dex in Vanilla/Kunark...

Click to expand...

Halfling Warrior is hardly an unusual race/class combo, Halflings are a hearty race. Gnome Warrior maybe is pushing it.

as an aside, remember when Sullon Zek allowed Halfling Warriors to worship Rallos Zek in the beginning? There were a few on the evil team, but then SoE removed the ability for them to pick that deity.

Kreugen_sl said:

If I'm going to be following a group around all day I'd rather have as much auto-attack as possible.

Click to expand...

I'd prefer less spammy combat, no matter what that means. So if I'm firing off 2-3 button sequences every 5-10 seconds that makes me happy. I don't want to do 1234343234323 rotations ever again, fuck that stupid shit.

Muligan_sl said:

May I make another suggestion, don't expand the world outwardly with updates/expansions. Add within the world all you can. I really felt that EQ would open a continent worth of zones and i honestly needed probably 3 of them. Furthermore, I would like to see the play base still travel through old zones and use old towns. Looking back to my time of EQ, I think you could have added many of the zone within the current world and kept people connected without sending them to the moon or wherever....

Click to expand...

This is interesting. There's always a new doorway that can be discovered or a hole that can be excavated. I like it.

tad10_sl said:

Yeah this works too. Though I wouldn't go unlimited.

Click to expand...

I said unlimited because I don't care what the actual limit would turn out to be.

Tuco_sl said:

What's ironic about MMOs is the incredible stale combat for most classes in EQ allowed people to socialize while medding, auto attacking, waiting for pulls etc. OTOH voip has overtaken text as the primary method of communication.

Click to expand...

That's because most MMO combat systems are shit. The biggest offender is Wildstar's attempt at "action and meaningful combat". It's dreadful.

Creslin_sl said:

EQ was not that massive. Basically the entire high level population was funneled running between lavastorm and guk. Thats like a 15 minute run at most. Kunark made it alot larger but since most high levels didnt have to leave kunark for groups ever it wasn't a major concern. By velious the spread had become a major problem which is why luclin did what it did.

If you make a game really massive like modern tech allows you need to let people travel to groups faster, especially if you don't use instances and are relying on people spreading themselves out when things get overcrowded.

Plus if you don't think about that stuff now you end up with big problems once the game starts to die down, forced grouping while leveling doesn't work well when there isn't anyone around to level with.

Click to expand...

This touches a question I have: Is the game designed in such a way that the entire world is available at your fingertips? Do we want the game designed in such a way that the entire world is available to play in at any given time?

Personally I dont need that, but this is a point that I might stand alone with. Playing EVE, I just accepted/dealt with that not being the case. If you want to do stuff that needs several people you play whoever is around (and trustworthy lol), or do something else. Could do stuff with friends that based themselves in the next region at times, other days the only one online from our RL clique was at the other end of the galaxy so we couldnt join up, that's just how it is.

Aradune_sl said:

What do you guys feel about a spell/ability system where you have a fixed number of slots, so even if you know 100 spells, you can only mem a few at a time. Or, do you prefer the 'as long as I have mana' I can cast what I want?

Click to expand...

Limited abilities/spells for sure. GW1/2, EQ1 and Diablo 3 (heh) did that decently. I would have different restrictions for combat and utility/fun abilities probably. In EQ it worked because you actually could change during combat but had to take a risk to do so. I dont like how in GW2 I had to perma-load alot of only uncommonly needed utility or basically never use it, because you couldnt switch in combat. Having say 8 combat slots for attacks, heals and crowd control and 8 utility slots that hold clickies, buff spells, lockpicks and so on. Where to place dispells, debuffs and cure spells is a tricky question, could fit either category. Then make it a channeled ability to switch them out while in combat to allow people to take a risk to get a spell loaded they didnt expect to need.

Abefroman_sl said:

Time to stir the pot. Do you guys want dodge in the game?

Click to expand...

Want is a big word, but I liked dodge on GW2. I guess I'm neutral on it. The real question you're pointing at is "action combat yes/no?" isnt it?

Creslin_sl said:

WoW might as well have no auto attack at this point since active abilities have taken over like 95% of the damage you do.

Click to expand...

I always hated that (even when the auto attack damage percentage was higher) since it creates a huge gap between good and bad people (and the frustration of being grouped with unskilled players). In EQ a rogue was doing as much damage as his gear allowed (unless they stopped back-stabbing...) you rarely had to yell at them for not trying hard enough (unless they aggro'd mobs or other non-damage issues). It also removes attention from the rotation to be put elsewhere (opportunities for reaction moves/skills, positionnal awareness or the dreaded social side of MMOs others have brought up).

If you break up abilities into Spell, Melee, Utility, each class could have a different limit in each area. So a Wizard may have 8, 1, 3; Ranger 4, 4, 4; Warrior 3, 5, 4; Cleric 6, 2, 4.
Then as you accumulate your spells and skills you could slot each area according to current needs from your pool of abilities. Sort of a hybrid between original EQ and GW2.

Draegan_sl said:

I'd prefer less spammy combat, no matter what that means. So if I'm firing off 2-3 button sequences every 5-10 seconds that makes me happy. I don't want to do 1234343234323 rotations ever again, fuck that stupid shit.

Click to expand...

Yes please! No spammy action combat, i dont want to work while fighting! Limited slots is ok, but i always hated the long downtime changing spells in EQ. Also please no fireball I-VIII spells, hated that shit.

I'd actually like to see far more abilities made passive, however you are limited in that number of passive abilities you can have so that's where your ability to plan builds comes into play. Riposte, backstab, Ignite (fire spells leave a dot), Combat Builder A01. Basically any ability that you would -always- smash when available should not have to be smashed at all. Any ability you use should always be a choice, and you should rarely want to use the same ability over and over.

A simple example would be a wow rogue that doesn't have to use sinister strike/mutilate, only finishers. This essentially gives you four combat abilities with a shared cooldown of around 3-5 seconds. So you choose to either hit slice and dice (self dps buff), riposte (large damage dot), eviscerate (smaller damage dd), or kidney shot (stun) So, a rotation, but without all the spam in between.

Or maybe I'm nuts and this would bore us all to death after being used to 60apm MMOs.

arallu_sl said:

If you break up abilities into Spell, Melee, Utility, each class could have a different limit in each area. So a Wizard may have 8, 1, 3; Ranger 4, 4, 4; Warrior 3, 5, 4; Cleric 6, 2, 4.
Then as you accumulate your spells and skills you could slot each area according to current needs from your pool of abilities. Sort of a hybrid between original EQ and GW2.

Click to expand...

More like straight from EQN amirite

But it's still a good idea. Would also be nice to have cross-class stuff coming from some involving quests where it makes sense or gained from factions (like giantsbane nuke though that was wiz only, could have been mage too for example).

I definitely like procs. On weapons and even added to spells. It would be cool to have your baseline spell plus an add on like a dot/DPS multiplier that was rare in the world. I know Brad mentioned some uper spells for that 10% of your class outside its typical role.

Aradune_sl said:

What do you guys feel about a spell/ability system where you have a fixed number of slots, so even if you know 100 spells, you can only mem a few at a time. Or, do you prefer the 'as long as I have mana' I can cast what I want?

Click to expand...

I LOVE the limited number of slots (EQ system) where I have plenty of spells but I can only use X at the same time. Yes for fixed number of slots!

Phew. This was a long thread to read through. I'm looking forward to the Kickstarter finally coming out. *hat tip to everyone*

Ilucide_sl said:

Phew. This was a long thread to read through. I'm looking forward to the Kickstarter finally coming out. *hat tip to everyone*

Click to expand...

Just curious..were you a lurker or did this game bring you here?

Brad- how accurate is this guy??!=pTwitter / East_Side_PoPo: @Convo80 I think you are ...

Lol jk but seriously.. How long have you been cooking this game up before you decided to make the leap?

You should have Jay Barbeau do your music. He seems very hidden from the public now. I'm not sure what happened to him, but he's obviously good.