Flake
Golden Knight of the Realm
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Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
I just dont see FP mode ever being a main option in another MMO. People like to see their characters and the work that they have put into them. When I played EQ I almost always was in 3rd person so I could see my surroundings better.
Yes, that's the point.
If you want to see your character, that's what paperdolls are for.
I'd rather first person primary, but I'm also realistic and know there's a very slim chance of it happening. I'm good either way.
First person isn't going to happen. Even in EQ almost everyone I knew went 3rd person for everything but very tight spaces. They only went first person then because EQ camera options were ass.
Guys, don't you get it? You have to choose one for the focus of your design. It's been said in this thread before, but if it's third with first as an afterthought, we will not see dungeons like Guk or Solb.
If this game doesn't have social dungeons on that level, I'll consider it a failure.
If this game doesn't have social dungeons on that level, I'll consider it a failure.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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It trivializes my favorite kind of "dungeon" - non-instanced outdoor adventure areas like Rhaz Inkur in Vanguard. Which means designers have to only put in caves or put in stupid crap like "no fly zones" for no apparent reason. And, as Bruman & Dumar said said it makes travel safe, unless designers sit around and put thousands of Piranha Pigeons mobs wandering the skies or wtf, and it reduces class inter-dependence. Finally of course as gogojira they don't make a lot of sense unless the world is very large.
None of these are deal breakers to be sure but I do think they suggest that flying mounts should be one of the lowest priorities for development.
I'd much rather have on-the-ground mounted combat than flying mounts if it is a matter of limited resource allocation.
Oh no doubt, one will always be the primary with the other an after thought that doesn't function properly enough to play the game. Regardless of what I'd prefer, my assumption is that it'll be a third person game but that's just a guess.
I played first person in EQ my entire time. The only reason ever switched out was when the bazaar was laggy I would do overhead view, then go FP again once I left.
First Person would be amazing with Rift Support. 110 Degree Diagonal Field of View is Amazing for exploring an MMO.
First Person would be amazing with Rift Support. 110 Degree Diagonal Field of View is Amazing for exploring an MMO.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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Vanguard is the best example. The world was challenging, but not impossible to navigate. You had to learn your way around and pay attention, mostly, to not die if you were wanting to travel. Getting a mount was huge, not only for speed but because you didn't instantly get dismounted and there was gear to improve stability. So if you did get agro, you had an even better chance. Still risky, but as you leveled up and areas were more dangerous, you had more tools, so it still wasn't kick-in-the-balls tough to travel. Again, you basically just had to pay attention and were rewarded for learning an area and shortcuts.
Now, from around level 10, you basically teleport to the nearest riftstone transporter, then run a few yards, rent a flying mount, take off, and you're at your destination, faster and safer than ever before. The problem is that's not really how the world was designed, so it actually feels like you're just skipping content and cheesing your way through the game. But then, it's not just as convenient as other games that port you right to where you want to go, so it's a weird middle-ground that doesn't make a lot of sense.
Some may say great, don't you want to get to where you're going. Yeah, if it's that type of game, then I don't mind. If it's a game that's about 'world' and 'immersion' and grouping and shit like that, though, early or easy access to flying mounts negates a lot of that and imo a company should just say fuck it and add in insta-ports to dungeons, quest hubs and cities.
So, for me it's not that flying mounts are bad, but based on what we know (and hope for) flying mounts would be contrary to the spirit of the world. It's one of those things were every cool feature won't make a game better just because in and of itself it's cool. What I think people are really saying isn't that flying mounts suck, but that the type of game and world they want to experience is in large ways negated if you're flying over the world instead of traveling through it.
RobXIII
Urinal Cake Consumption King
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I've heard the Ding in countless places now, but just recently my toddler was watching Dora the Explorer and they totally used the Quest Hand In Trumpets(tm).
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Pretty much. If Pantheon has an expansion with floating island in space - then yeah, lets have flying mounts usable in that region.
Have each island be a puzzle and an NPC named Sirran. Much better.
Don't fall on the chains!
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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The only way to see your character and the work you've put in is by every cave having vaulted ceilings so you can watch your character fight?
I don't personally mind third person for the outside world. I just get sick of indoors and dungeons being gargantuan in scale to avoid camera issues. Feels contrived to me.
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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Dumar,
I know you guys all clamor for the first person camera view. The issue like I tried to say above is the first person cameras all suck. They don't give me a true first person view like looking through my own eyes. My in game view has no peripheral vision and I can't see past my neck in most games without manipulating the camera angle. In real life I have all that without even moving my head. So if they can create a better camera than sure, first person all the way. If not, third person please Brad.
I know you guys all clamor for the first person camera view. The issue like I tried to say above is the first person cameras all suck. They don't give me a true first person view like looking through my own eyes. My in game view has no peripheral vision and I can't see past my neck in most games without manipulating the camera angle. In real life I have all that without even moving my head. So if they can create a better camera than sure, first person all the way. If not, third person please Brad.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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The camera options never seemed intended to use as normal, but just to help get screenshots.
The people I knew used first person because it gave more accurate control of your movement. This could often be seen when a caster got agro and started moving spastically until they got back into first person.
In EQ a lot of people still used arrows to turn, too, that doesn't mean it was good or right.
I'm fully with Tad on no problems with zones , as others have said that you can come up with reasonable choke points around a corner in a mountain path , over a hill path or something , you could go the Vanguard route and hide the zoning/chunking maybe. Whatever gets it to zero to as little "instances" as possible is what I want as I hate instancing.
The flight shit needs to be 100% out. Or make it 10 year down the road. Literally zero dev time/money should be spent for years on things that in any way trivialize the world. We have enough games where the world feeling gets shit on by the game mechanics. I want this thing to feel like you have to actually travel to get from one side to the other.
Mounts if they must be in , should be slower than Bard speed/run buff. Just an off the cuff example , make mounts +33% run speed alone , SoW/run buff +50% , and Bard speed song +75%. No mechanic should trump what a specific class can do. Make it where you always want the X class that can run your party cross continent faster than your mount. If you want to make it where it would let you have your mount out and apply the group speed buff (non stacking - just for aesthetics ) so be it , would be amusing seeing the gnome unmounted keeping up with the tiger mount in party.
Both class interdependence (wizard ports , bard speed song , necro summon corpse etc etc ) and the world should not be trivialized is what I'd like to see as a cornerstone to most every decision made about gameplay.
The world + relying on each other > all.
The flight shit needs to be 100% out. Or make it 10 year down the road. Literally zero dev time/money should be spent for years on things that in any way trivialize the world. We have enough games where the world feeling gets shit on by the game mechanics. I want this thing to feel like you have to actually travel to get from one side to the other.
Mounts if they must be in , should be slower than Bard speed/run buff. Just an off the cuff example , make mounts +33% run speed alone , SoW/run buff +50% , and Bard speed song +75%. No mechanic should trump what a specific class can do. Make it where you always want the X class that can run your party cross continent faster than your mount. If you want to make it where it would let you have your mount out and apply the group speed buff (non stacking - just for aesthetics ) so be it , would be amusing seeing the gnome unmounted keeping up with the tiger mount in party.
Both class interdependence (wizard ports , bard speed song , necro summon corpse etc etc ) and the world should not be trivialized is what I'd like to see as a cornerstone to most every decision made about gameplay.
The world + relying on each other > all.