Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 49,523
- 88,347
joking: All social mobs, when they have LOS to a KOS intruder should ring a bell and the entire group should band together.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,534
- 601
Can't speak for Dumar but everything I liked about WoW was pretty much gone a year after release (original AV anyone?) whereas the things I didn't like never changed (running UBRS 30x for a slim chance at the Alchemy drop).
I gather raiding got better after MC, but I wasn't interested enough in the rest of the game to find out.
Aside from the raiding, what other great stuff did Blizzard do?
I'm honest and give credit where its due. WoW did some great things in vanilla: dungeon design (BRD), the group quests were really well done. If you look at the class design taken individually, it's also well done (that is, looking at a paladin without looking at the other classes, they've got some awesome abilities). The problem is when you look at that same paladin compared to a druid, for example. They do the same things in a group setting, so a player playing the class and the other players interacting with him won't really care about the differences because they perform the same role. Take that to the extreme that it is in modern WoW, that's where they failed the most (well, outside of pvp). There's no reason for the idea of a class except for different animations for the same effect.
I mean, at that point, why even bother with 'choosing a class' because that choice doesn't matter outside of the graphics & animations you'll see. There's no tangible differences or effects that translate into a unique role for that class (that's why dungeon finder has 'pick a role', not pick a class). And again, this goes back to that holistic design I'm talking about: part of the problem is also a lack of a death penalty. So not only do the players not care about their character because all the classes perform the same roles, but even if they kill their character, there's no sense of loss.
WoW design fosters a severe disconnect from the world and the characters in it: it turns them all into outputs and inputs of numbers on spreadsheets that can be interchanged with each other, with window dressing to appease any sense of an immersive world.
Brad needs to avoid that as much as possible.
Hunter was a very unique class like Creed said. So was druid, druid shape shifting was incredibly unique and cool. As was shaman with the totem mechanics. Paladin too with the different blessings and cooldowns and auras, it was a far more unique class than the mix of a shitty warrior + a shitty cleric that EQ offered.
Rogue was also a huge evolution from EQ, you lost some of the non combat utility because there was no corpse dragging but WoWs stealth with distract and sap etc was pretty cool.
Most of the classes in classic had truely unique playstyles in fact. The homogenization really came as they pushed the raid sizes down after TBC and really embraced the move from a medium paced game to a very fast paced game.
Being blind to the good things they did is bad, they developed some truly great classes and anyone who thinks most classes were homogenized or played remotely similar to each other in classic or TBC is retarded.
Rogue was also a huge evolution from EQ, you lost some of the non combat utility because there was no corpse dragging but WoWs stealth with distract and sap etc was pretty cool.
Most of the classes in classic had truely unique playstyles in fact. The homogenization really came as they pushed the raid sizes down after TBC and really embraced the move from a medium paced game to a very fast paced game.
Being blind to the good things they did is bad, they developed some truly great classes and anyone who thinks most classes were homogenized or played remotely similar to each other in classic or TBC is retarded.
With you 100%. Uniqueness has to have a tangible, mechanical effect. For example, I don't want flying mounts in Pantheon, but I could live with the idea that someone mentioned where a class has the ability to turn into a bird and fly as its unique ability.
Like Creed said, the Hunter class was pretty good. The taming, trapping, and ranged abilities were really fun to play. But it got a lot wrong, and as fun as the Hunter was, it didn't overshadow the problems for me.
jooka
marco esquandolas
- 15,400
- 6,670
I'm excited about this but god damn, can we all just quit lobbying for what we did or did not like from 'x' game and let the man do his thing. He sure as fuck didn't need your input making EQ and potentially ruined VG(engine aside) listening to mouth breathers like all of you lobbying the fuck out of him. Let him make the game and get the fuck out of his way.
rofl, nice
couple of things: i hope to see the ability to move while casting like in vg. i've gotten so used to this that if i can't cast while moving i tend to just play melee characters.
vg classes themselves are pretty awesome since each class has a different way to fulfill its role, but the problem is that the devs made too many concessions to make the game solo friendly which is why the server is fucking full of disciples who can't properly heal. what i'd like to see in terms of 'balance' is some give and take when it comes to abilities. if a class is amazing at x, make it equally horrible at y. thats the biggest issue i have with vg class balance: too many classes excel in a lot of different things other than their primary archtype role.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,534
- 601
Not much else to chat about buddy. No kickstarter as yet, and beats bitching about other people's posts.
jooka
marco esquandolas
- 15,400
- 6,670
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 8,792
- 664
Brad and company would do well to listen. We don't have all the answers, but we do have the experience to know what works and what doesn't.
Class design is the bedrock of everything else. That has to be done correctly (tm), else everything else can't fall into place.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 8,792
- 664
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,534
- 601
But if I had, you wouldn't have the opportunity to reply in such a smug, snarky way. I couldn't deprive you of that.
You're welcome
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 44,445
- 53,917
Rofl.
Brad & co would be well served to pay just enough attention to not make it obvious that they're ignoring all the suggestions they get from places like this thread.
Well, if they do and design another WoW clone, then I won't play and instead watch another dumpster fire.