Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

So let's all pledge 10k and feel like bigshots. (Assuming the project wont succeed)

Brad, ya dun fucked up.

this thread went weird.

one minute. "zomg take my money", with what I too thought fairly mediocre KS pitch.
But, we then went full tilt the other way to rage and trainwreck.

Honestly, while CU's video is much longer, its not all that entertaining or interesting. Just the same dude going on and on. However I will agree that the teirs CU have seem more well thought out.

Soygen_sl said:

Yup. The Kickstarter itself is your first view into how a project will be managed and it doesn't look good thus far. Removing the fanboys from the equation, imagine a general gamer viewing this page with no knowledge of Everquest, Brad, etc. How are they going to look at this page and are they going to be compelled to fork out 40+ bucks for this idea?

It's going to be an uphill battle for 800,000.

Click to expand...

I'm doubting they expect to appeal to a large group of gamers that aren't aware of EQ and VG. I think they were pretty clear who they were targeting.

That said.. I agree.. the KS could of been much better..It hit for me based on the bullets, like i said before, I let my imagination show me what the finished product will look like.. but the good thing is they have us and time to make it better. I think they should listen for sure bc it can be better. I don't make games, nor will I pretend to know how to sell them to people but I can talk about what I would like to see/hear from them.

If It were me, I would sell one of my core features, which is grouping. If they don't already have a dungeon built in the spirit of something like Seb they should get working. I would much rather see a walk through of a dungeon and have them place an emphasis on why large outdoor dungeons are unique, using old school dungeons as examples, what they hope to provide through dungeons in regards to challenge, community and overall experience. what makes their game so awesome in regards to the group content and more on combat/classes. Instead of PH models I'd rather them show concept art of the type of mobs we can expect to find in the dungeon(no spiders) and also a boss mob. I think videos like that would go a long way with aiding in funding this project.

Fubarbox_sl said:

I have participated in a lot of successful KS, mostly on the board game side of things and I hate to say it, but I agree. The thing that hurts is that I really want this project to succeed. When I see the videos, poorly planned pledge tiers, and cringe worthy screenshots, I die a little inside. Its like no research or consulting was done into what makes a successful KS and if you're asking for this much, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Plus looking at the total right now makes me less than excited. I have seen miniature games from relative nobodies do 200k in a single day. I know this is a video game, so some things do not translate, but having a KS that looks like its run by a kid in the basement and not a professional company will hurt funding and make people less likely to pledge.

You really need to follow some of the great advice you are getting on here and KS about how to alter this campaign because as it goes now, I doubt it will be funded and that sucks. And yes I know we are on day 2, but the reality is that most huge KS make most of their funding in the first 3 days or so and in the last 2 days after the 48 hour notices come out. Pledged at $45 for now...I would do $100, but this KS campaign makes me think I am just tossing my money into a pit....which is an odd conflict since I am a fanboy for what I think you are offering....My advice, bite the bullet like some other KS have done. Take down the KS page and get things reworked. Then relaunch a week from now.

Click to expand...

That's good advice. It's super risky, though. But every minute the dev team waits to start interacting in a massive way online, is another minute we get closer to the wheels really coming off. I'm not saying this stuff to be a jerk. I'm saying it because I really believe in this style of game and I really WANT this project to succeed.

Troy_Costisick_sl said:

Brad should have opened up the rough draft Kickstarter page for the community to view. That's getting more and more common now, and it makes Kickstarters a lot better IMO.

Click to expand...

I agree with most of your earlier points (in particular the lack of Brad supporting other KS projects) and of course with this:

In general as you, Fubar, popsicle, etc. etc. have said - if possible, take it down, fix it and then put it back up.

Videos
-Doesn't clarify Death Penalty
-Is flat wrong on "Windows Only"
-Not enough excitement from developers.
-Who's running the company if not Brad?
-Doesn't explain that stretch goals will be meet eventually even if not reached in KS.
-Corollary to DP clarification - doesn't go enough into how Pantheon is different beyond "hard bosses": difficult leveling, death penalty, trinity for combat, class interdependence (can I get a SoW, Clarity, etc).

Screenshots
-Unity Store assets okay.
-Big "Slash" not okay.

KS Website
-Tiers range from too cheap (Alpha & Beta Access) to not that interesting (500+)
-Tier breaks are too big: $150 to $300 is a huge jump without something in between, similarly $500 to $1,0000 and $1,000 to $10,000 is a huge jump: where are $200, $250, $750, $2,000 and $5,000?
-Lacks an Unlimited Digital Download (Open Beta Only) at a "Steal" price (e.g. $20 to $25)
-No Physical Swag (Maps, T-Shirts, Autographed Design Doc, Etc). Needed.
-Need "3 year subscription" (e.g. mini-lifetime subscription) around the $500-$750 level.

-Stretch Goals don't make a lot of sense in how they're ordered. The class/race combos should be first, followed by UI modification, followed by everything else. You're basically telling monks/bards they have no chance to be in at release.

/Asides
-People flip out about mini-map, though Rangers running around not having a clue where they are is almost as bad. How about we only give Rangers (and maybe Druids) mini-maps and call it a day.

-Contribute to a couple of kickstarters Brad!

Fubarbox_sl said:

I have participated in a lot of successful KS, mostly on the board game side of things and I hate to say it, but I agree. The thing that hurts is that I really want this project to succeed. When I see the videos, poorly planned pledge tiers, and cringe worthy screenshots, I die a little inside. Its like no research or consulting was done into what makes a successful KS and if you're asking for this much, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Plus looking at the total right now makes me less than excited. I have seen miniature games from relative nobodies do 200k in a single day. I know this is a video game, so some things do not translate, but having a KS that looks like its run by a kid in the basement and not a professional company will hurt funding and make people less likely to pledge.

You really need to follow some of the great advice you are getting on here and KS about how to alter this campaign because as it goes now, I doubt it will be funded and that sucks. And yes I know we are on day 2, but the reality is that most huge KS make most of their funding in the first 3 days or so and in the last 2 days after the 48 hour notices come out. Pledged at $45 for now...I would do $100, but this KS campaign makes me think I am just tossing my money into a pit....which is an odd conflict since I am a fanboy for what I think you are offering....My advice, bite the bullet like some other KS have done. Take down the KS page and get things reworked. Then relaunch a week from now.

Click to expand...

Kinda my thoughts. Again I dont know if take down and rework is in the cards, but it might not be a bad idea. If they think they can take the advice coming from all directions and turn it around (for VG) within a week.

Caliane_sl said:

this thread went weird.

one minute. "zomg take my money", with what I too thought fairly mediocre KS pitch.
But, we then went full tilt the other way to rage and trainwreck.

Click to expand...

Reality landed and suddenly people are realizing that Brad won't be making the game of their dreams.

mkopec_sl said:

I do have to agree here. I never really spent any time on kickstarter checking shit out, but last night I spent a frew hours looking at some of the more profitable ones in games, like Camelot Unchained, Wasteland 2, Planescape, and man, those kickstarters just look and feel better. The videos they made were better as well. Especially the ones for Wasteland 2. the guy actually was rather funny and entertaining.

Just seeing the shit last night totally ruined andy warm and fuzzy feelings I had for the Pantheon kickstarter.

Click to expand...

Not only that but those ones stormed out the gate. Camelot made 500k in the first day. This made 40k, and it probably all came from here.

This game is already way more Vanguard than it is EQ. It just screams generic and half-assed. A calculated ploy from a narcissist instead of a project of passion

mkopec_sl said:

I did what I could for now. $45 is all I could do. But at least I did my part.

I honestly cannot believe that Camelot with Mark Jacobs is getting so much cash. I mean, the dude is basically the one behind what was Warhammer fail, right? But in retrospect im betting that Warhammer did a bit better than Vanguard over its life. hehe.

Click to expand...

Warhammer was actually a decent game, and many of us think it was ruined in a similar manner to SWG. Anyways, do you really want to compare Warhammer which was underfunded and backdoored to Vanguard, an open MS money pit?

In regards to kickstarter and these two projects: Jacobs is a guy I'd trust to get a game out the door. Mcquaid is not. Simple as that.

My bigger issue is in 99 Brad seemed to be 'one of us'. I doubt he's even played an MMO in the last 5 years.

Fubarbox_sl said:

...My advice, bite the bullet like some other KS have done. Take down the KS page and get things reworked. Then relaunch a week from now.

Click to expand...

Probably the best post I have read since the KS launch.

Soygen_sl said:

I would say the people being critical of it were never on the "OMG TAKE MY MONEY". The ones who were excited would have pledged to a blank html page.

Click to expand...

exactly.. A bad KS isn't enough to turn me off from this game. I'm pretty supportive of the direction they want to take this game. Any MMO is a gamble.. You just need to decide if you went to get in on it or not. This case I'm putting up instead of shutting up since I've been asking for years for this to happen.

Convo_sl said:

This case I'm putting up instead of shutting up since I've been asking for years for this to happen.

Click to expand...

Yeah that was my thoughts. Most of us here have lamented the direction of the MMO genre over the past 10 years, and this is the best bet we have at a MMO we'd be interested in beyond a month. Put up or shut up seemed appropriate.

It could just be that, as much as none of us like it - the demand isn't there to create even a small-scale niche-MMO that's basically a prettier EQ. We'll see in 39 days!