Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Convo_sl said:

Happy Mother's Day, guys..

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Nice injection of sanity. Yes, Happy Mother's day. They would be so proud of us....

Vandyn_sl said:

Why does it matter so much to you that some else enjoys content? Why is the enjoyment of the game you are playing dependent on whether someone else is accessing the same shit you are?

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it doesn't bother me at all if someone else enjoys content or has access to it. what bothers me is that everything now is uncontested and instanced. instancing has taken all of the social interaction out of MMO's. all i want is one fucking game that is open world and has meaningful loot. i don't think that's asking for too much. what i don't understand is why all of you morons have to post here and try to tell me what the fuck i liked or didn't like about everquest. you didn't like it, fine. there are dozens of MMO's out there that cater to you (none of which you play). all i want is one fucking MMO that caters to me.

etchazz_sl said:

it doesn't bother me at all if someone else enjoys content or has access to it. what bothers me is that everything now is uncontested and instanced. instancing has taken all of the social interaction out of MMO's. all i want is one fucking game that is open world and has meaningful loot. i don't think that's asking for too much. what i don't understand is why all of you morons have to post here and try to tell me what the fuck i liked or didn't like about everquest. you didn't like it, fine. there are dozens of MMO's out there that cater to you (none of which you play). all i want is one fucking MMO that caters to me.

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Dood its just nastalgia *waves hand*, you didn't really like eq *waves hand* you should become sheeple like most gamers today *waves hand*.

Kidding aside, your post is spot on

Erronius_sl said:

Where should one work then? Considering that Brad had to resort to KS and that just about every major MMO studio I can think of has done exactly what you are railing about here (including SOE), it's almost like you expect Developers to live under bridges and code in coffee shops as they fight some sort of MMO developer rebellion against THOSE DAMN MONEYGRUBBING STUDIOS.

I'm sure that Alex is doing just fine without having to swipe $45k from a Kickstarter just to get by.

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Herein lies the problem... its not about what developers want to make, its about what gets funded. Check out project eternity.. the whole premise was making a baldurs like experience again, which they used KS because it would never get funded through normal channels.

shabushabu_sl said:

Herein lies the problem... its not about what developers want to make, its about what gets funded. Check out project eternity.. the whole premise was making a baldurs like experience again, which they used KS because it would never get funded through normal channels.

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There are a bunch of games like that without KS, they are just from small studios because that's who makes games like that. Big studios make big budget titles, and the RPG scene is very good right now anyway, so it hardly compares to memos.

shabushabu_sl said:

Herein lies the problem... its not about what developers want to make, its about what gets funded. Check out project eternity.. the whole premise was making a baldurs like experience again, which they used KS because it would never get funded through normal channels.

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Yup. And that's why my statement that the modern gaming industry is garbage is harsh, but honest and objective.

Erronius_sl said:

THOSE DAMN MONEYGRUBBING STUDIOS.

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Because of the amount of money infused in the industry now, you essentially have what happens in high finance and other 'matured' industries like modern Hollywood and music: a bunch of fat fucks like Kotick with all the capital dictating what gets made and what doesn't. Their borg-like company blobs go around with that level of capital infusion and just gobble up any small firms that could give us something great. And because of this state of affairs, it takes a gazillion dollars to make anything worthwhile. The fat fucks don't care about gameplay or great games. Great gamplay to them is increasing AcitiShitzard's stock value by a few bucks so they can go have great gameplay on another new yacht. They could care less about social dungeons or massive player interaction.

So they encourage their yes-men like Pardo, Metzen, Tigole Shits, Furor, et al to listen to their MBA maketing parrots. How revenue and player retention increased 10 gazillion percent once they made dungeons 3 boxed rooms like Scarlet Monastery. Well golly gee, that means EVERY dungeon in the game should be 3 boxed rooms, of course. So now, we're at the point where you just buy your max level and whatever mounts because the quarterly earnings call in a few months will sound much better.

Fuck them. If they really cared about games, they'd leave the industry. I wouldn'tdareget into it again because I couldn't tell myself what I was making everyday was a truly awesome game. There are other ways to get bread on the table & Porsches in the garage.

Creslin_sl said:

There are a bunch of games like that without KS, they are just from small studios because that's who makes games like that. Big studios make big budget titles, and the RPG scene is very good right now anyway, so it hardly compares to memos.

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I must be missing them can you shoot me some links perhaps I will check em out..

I did find this one (just starting however) ..

Shadow sun

http://ossianstudios.com/tss

Seems pretty cool it's very D&D like.

Erronius_sl said:

Which of course leads us right back to KS, Pantheon and Brad...

The irony in all of this is that this portion of the market is far too small to interest major studios, yet because they're such a small segment they probably won't ever be able to fund something as expensive as a legit MMO through something like KS. So people are damned to look at funding sources like KS while knowing that they'll never be able to generate enough via KS to fund something like an actual MMO anyways.

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i disagree. i look at the MMO industry much like hollywood. it doesn't have to be a 200 million dollar movie to be good, or be successful. i'll give you an example: paranormal activity. the first movie i believe was made for around $50,000 or so, and it was a solid movie that did extremely well at the box office, despite its lack of big name actors or special effects. then hollywood got ahold of the title and now they shit out a paranormal activity every year that costs a thousand times more to make, yet are all completely terrible.

Where is tad at ? Wonder. How Vg emu is going... That may be an option or eqnext make your own MMO assuming that will be possible

Oloh_sl said:

After this post, I wont say anything more about it because it's not that big of a deal and most of the members won't understand anyway. I am not suggesting holding back and not "kicking asses." I am just saying to avoid putting links to rerolled when you do it. More pointedly, sites like this are dangerous for folks that work in or around the gaming industry. If a HR person at a gaming studio, or a executive VP somewhere, sees the post and sees some of the content here (SS forum?), it could be GG for those that work there just because the board is not really worth the risk of causing drama. That would suck not only for those people, but also for the community to lose those people. That was the reason behind my post. Nothing more.

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3 Days Later:

I can tell you for a fact plenty of PR/Devs from studios post and read and contribute here that you don't know. I wouldn't really worry about linking this forum anywhere. It's not really a secret place.

Erronius_sl said:

Well, if this was true then why haven't we seen an EQ1 type game made by independents on the cheap then? Why is it that people have to pin their hopes on Brad? (twice now?) That or rely on major studios with funding?

...because GL making an MMO, even a bare-bones 1999 tech EQ1 throwback MMO for $50k. I mean, FFS, Brad swiped $45k right off the top - using a $50k movie as a comparison is just crazy. And understand that I actually hope I'm wrong, that it is somehow possible for someone to push out an MMO like this for peanuts. But given the metrics, I just don't think it's possible. I actually would WANT to be wrong and have people pushing out indie MMOs that aren't shit like how we see with single player RPGs, but we aren't seeing that and I'm doubtful that we ever will.

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i think unfortunately a game more in the mold of EQ1 is going to have to be done through a kickstarter, or someone who is already in the industry who can convince a big time studio that it would be profitable (not brad!). you're right in that department. i just looked at the game that shabushabu linked, project eternity, and they hit over $3 million on their kickstarter, and that was a bunch of guys with great reputations who had made great games in the past who wanted to make a RPG like baldur's gate and obviously there were players out there who were also looking for that kind of game once again. so i think it is possible to get that kind of support through kickstarter, but obviously it's going to have to be done by people who are competent, hard working, and passionate, and who are willing to do more than just make a KS that basically says "we thought of a game! give us money!"

Utnayan_sl said:

Yes? I bought the expac and leveled a rogue automatically to 90. I have bought little trinkets on the shop, and I have also bought decks in HS although not recently. That doesn't make the two games any less fun to play. They are easy to pick up, easy to get into, and fun as fuck. So, I am not sure what your point is here. That they have cash shops? Diablo 3 was a fucking mess with the real cash auction shop. But they learned, reversed the decision and took it out. Tell me how many companies would do that? None? They would leave it in and try to milk it. Instead, they saw how unpopular their design decision was, and reversed it, and diablo 3 after the loot patch was fucking awesome and back to the way it always should have been.

If you want to pick bones, go after EA. That shit with BF3, Sims, Dead Space 3, and all those microtransactions is fucking ridiculous and beyond cosmetic.

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Dumar's point is and has always been that the only exceptable game to play is the one he wants to play. Progression of the MMO genre is quite simply updating a 15 year old game and any type of new mechanic is for people with short attention spans and ADHD. I'm sure you can discuss this topic further in real time by getting his Bnet real ID and logging into WoW. You could also go to the next Blizzcon and talk about it in person over a beer.

etchazz_sl said:

i think unfortunately a game more in the mold of EQ1 is going to have to be done through a kickstarter, or someone who is already in the industry who can convince a big time studio that it would be profitable (not brad!). you're right in that department. i just looked at the game that shabushabu linked, project eternity, and they hit over $3 million on their kickstarter, and that was a bunch of guys with great reputations who had made great games in the past who wanted to make a RPG like baldur's gate and obviously there were players out there who were also looking for that kind of game once again. so i think it is possible to get that kind of support through kickstarter, but obviously it's going to have to be done by people who are competent, hard working, and passionate, and who are willing to do more than just make a KS that basically says "we thought of a game! give us money!"

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You guys are going to think I am nuts but in the Vein of Project Eternity, what about a larger MMO studio ( SOE or Trion perhaps ) creating a kickstarter within itself like Obsidian did with PE ? It blows my mind in hindsight that why wouldn't SOE sponsor one of these things as an internal project. Hell they could chain Brad to a cube and feed him for designs and don't let him near money lol.

Maybe because SOE and TRION are their own publishers ? I am not aware of the studios that build MMOs that are not owned by a publisher, but one of them ala Obsidian could be the way this gets done.

Just brainstorming here. thoughts ?