Parent Thread

fred sanford · Nov 10, 2021

Hateyou said:
We both work but are fortunate enough to have flexible schedules and plenty of paid time off. He gets off the bus and were available. He doesn’t have to go to an after school program because we’re one or both of us there.

If you feel you’re missing out or their schedule is too long I don’t think it’s a big deal for her to not work for a while, unless your finances are tight, your jobs not very secure, etc. It would probably be good for the kids to have more parent time.

I grew up in a single parent home and she worked most of the time. I was a latch key kid so was home alone for an hour or more at age 8. Can’t really tell you how I felt as a kid with no parents, don’t really remember their presence or what I thought about it back then.

Without looking yet I'm still confident our finances are secure. The difference in my wife working vs not working is a matter of luxury. Basic necessities and savings are covered so we're talking if I want to go drop $1500 on new golf clubs I may have to think about it more than I would have in the past. It's really nice to be able to throw money around but I feel like my kids are missing our on family time and part of their childhood.

Guurn said:
Opinion - You are in the best possible position, have her be a stay at home mom. If so the kids are in school she can work part time if she wishes. Have another kid. Once the kids are out have her restart a career and you can scale back.

I'm older. Looking back the single biggest mistake we made is not having more kids earlier and not making the sacrifices necessary to allow one of us, or both of us part time, to be with the kids full time. Trusting others with large portions of your kids time is a huge problem, this includes their friends.

Because this is probably the most controversial part. Yes, they should have friends but family and family activities should come first 100% of the time. I could expand on specific examples but the point is the same.

This is what really bothers me. With our schedule they don't really have time for friends either. There aren't many kids in our neighborhood and my kids go to a private school farther away than the local public school. The families from our school are spread around the city so having my kids even get friend time with their school mates is rare. The playtime they get with the neighborhood kids happens like once every 2/3 weeks and their school friends like once every few months.

We also started late. We're both 42 and didn't have our kids until our mid 30s. We're definitely not having anymore so this would be a scenario where my wife would go back to work in her 50s. My mom did something similar but she was younger. She went back to school then work when I was farther along in middle school and she was in her 30s.

Guurn · Nov 10, 2021

Friend time is an interesting issue. I probably buck the usual positions on it. I think it's probably more important when they are young and less so as they get older. Either way it's way below family time.

fred sanford · Nov 10, 2021

Hateyou said:
We should have started earlier too. I’m happy with my kid, just kind of feel bad he’s an only child. However I feel I’m too old, and he’d have too big of an age gap, to go for another one. I don’t want a high schooler in my house when I’m turning 60.

If you can have her stay at home and have more go for it. No one ever laid in their death bed and said “I shouldn’t have had so many kids.” I’m sure the reverse has happened though.

We're content with the number of kids we have. We had our son at 33 and our daughter at 36. We didn't want to have an only child so we had the second even though it was later than we would have wanted.

Hateyou · Nov 10, 2021

fred sanford said:
Without looking yet I'm still confident our finances are secure. The difference in my wife working vs not working is a matter of luxury. Basic necessities and savings are covered so we're talking if I want to go drop $1500 on new golf clubs I may have to think about it more than I would have in the past. It's really nice to be able to throw money around but I feel like my kids are missing our on family time and part of their childhood.

This is what really bothers me. With our schedule they don't really have time for friends either. There aren't many kids in our neighborhood and my kids go to a private school farther away than the local public school. The families from our school are spread around the city so having my kids even get friend time with their school mates is rare. The playtime they get with the neighborhood kids happens like once every 2/3 weeks and their school friends like once every few months.

We also started late. We're both 42 and didn't have our kids until our mid 30s. We're definitely not having anymore so this would be a scenario where my wife would go back to work in her 50s. My mom did something similar but she was younger. She went back to school then work when I was farther along in middle school and she was in her 30s.

I say fuck it, have her quit. You feel like something is missing and you only get one shot at doing it. Material shit will be there when they’re old enough you can switch back. Once she gets settled into she can always work some half ass job if you miss your golf clubs too much.

I feel like we have a good balance. He gets seven hours of school, he has a neighborhood full of friends his age, sees his cousins every couple months, spends all his free time with us on weekends and school breaks. If I didn’t feel like it was balanced I’d be reevaluating what we’re doing too.

fred sanford · Nov 10, 2021

Guurn said:
Friend time is an interesting issue. I probably buck the usual positions on it. I think it's probably more important when they are young and less so as they get older. Either way it's way below family time.

I agree it's family time over friend time which is why I'm getting this guilty feeling. My kids don't get much of either. During the week it's get to school in the morning, and get home/do homework/dinner/bed in the evening. Thankfully we have two because they bond and play with each other a lot. But they're also getting to that point where they need a break from each other and could use a bit of friend time.

Guurn · Nov 10, 2021

Hateyou said:
We should have started earlier too. I’m happy with my kid, just kind of feel bad he’s an only child. However I feel I’m too old, and he’d have too big of an age gap, to go for another one. I don’t want a high schooler in my house when I’m turning 60.

If you can have her stay at home and have more go for it. No one ever laid in their death bed and said “I shouldn’t have had so many kids.” I’m sure the reverse has happened though.

It's funny you say that, I'm over 50 and I'd have no issue starting a second family if life gave me some hard lumps.

Hateyou · Nov 10, 2021

Guurn said:
It's funny you say that, I'm over 50 and I'd have no issue starting a second family if life gave me some hard lumps.

If we lived around more family I probably would have had another. Our first couple years after he was born were very stressful and tough. It’s still stressful for me sometimes not getting “date nights” and breaks from being at home with the kid all the time. I don’t do well with the being around each other 24/7 like my wife and kid do.

lurkingdirk · Nov 10, 2021

I think friend time is pretty darned important. And there is no reason you can't combine it with family time. My kids have friends over a lot, it happens with dinner, we play games all together with the friends there, go for walks, whatever. Incorporating friend time into family time is a valuable lesson, I think.

If you can financially swing it with one parent at home, it's a good move. My wife and I work just as much as we want to, and have since our kids are little, so we are totally spoiled in this. And it has always been great to get the kids from school when we can to let them avoid the long bus ride (though riding the bus is a good life lesson, too).

Captain Suave · Nov 10, 2021

My kids are 6 and 10 and both my wife and I work. On weekdays the kids are in an after school program until ~5:15. I think it's a fair compromise, as they have a lot of friends and enjoy their time there a lot (plus there's enough oversight so they get their homework done and don't have to do it at home). My wife and I both work from home, so even during crunch time we're still "present" around the house, plus we don't have to waste time commuting. I do all the chauffeuring, but it's only 5-10 minutes each way to school and after-school. We have family dinners every night, and I have spent I don't know how many thousands of hours with them reading bedtime stories. We have scheduled family events on Fridays. Saturday is date night for me and my wife, as we're fortunate enough to live near my in-laws and the kids overnight with them on Sat.

If there's one thing I learned from pandemic remote schooling, it's that young kids are not meant to be at home with their parents ALL the time. More so for us, because if anyone were going to quit working it would have to be me (wife makes bank), and if I'm totally honest I don't have personality for full-time kid duty.

fred sanford · Nov 10, 2021

Captain Suave said:
Saturday is date night for me and my wife, as we're fortunate enough to live near my in-laws and the kids overnight with them on Sat.

If there's one thing I learned from pandemic remote schooling, it's that young kids are not meant to be at home with their parents ALL the time. More so for us, because if anyone were going to quit working it would have to be me (wife makes bank), and if I'm totally honest I don't have personality for full-time kid duty.

My wife and I both spent time being watched by grandparents that lived close when we were kids. Our closest relatives now are her parents and they live an hour away. On top of that my mother in law is a bit of a nut. She's totally fine in a watching the kids aspect, except overdosing them with sweets. Problem is, she's over protective, as in, she doesn't believe kids under 12 should be away from their parents for too long. She won't watch our kids for more than a few hours and definitely wouldn't watch them over night.

I feel you on the remote schooling. Thankfully our school opened back up quick but the end of the school year in 2020 when it was closed and everyone was at home sucked. Remote learning doesn't work for a first grader lol.

Bandwagon · Nov 11, 2021

My daughter has been giving me chokehold hugs in the morning and saying "No I don't want you to go to work today" for a couple weeks now. It's been really sweet. This morning she said "Do you go to work to get monies?"
"Yep, that's why I go"
"Why do you need monies?"
"So I can pay for the house we live in. Otherwise we'd have to live in Grandma's back yard."
"OH, You should go to work dad! I don't want to live in Grandma's yard. You should go to work and get monies for us!"

She's definitely a woman.

Falstaff · Nov 11, 2021

My son says the same thing except it’s money for legos for him.

Izo · Nov 11, 2021

Falstaff said:
My son says the same thing except it’s money for legos for him.

One cannot go against legos.

Oblio · Nov 12, 2021

Had a conversation with my Dad yesterday. He brought up how big my boys are and how he bets no one would mess with them. This was a constant theme of my childhood, my Dad put a lot of emphasis on physical altercations. I always felt like he was encouraging me to fight as he would brag about his glory days of kicking ass in High School, College and even post College. I saw my Dad get into at least two physical fights when I was kid.

I did not grow up poor, but we were lower middle class/blue collar. I lived in a relatively safe area, but this was the 1980s when I was in elementary school. I saw fights monthly if not weekly in school and I would say that did not slow down until I transferred into a private religious high school my freshmen year. Even at the private school there were a handful of fights every year. I was no angel and was involved in my fair share of these fights.

Anyway, in response to my Dad I was like I don't think the kids have ever seen a physical alteration at their school. I do not recall them ever coming homing and telling me about one. So I asked my oldest son if he had ever seen a fight at school? He responded no and gave me a look as if to say why would that ever happen?

I am wondering why this is exactly? Is it because we have moved to a great community? Are parents just better now a days? Are kids just better? Are teachers on higher alert and nip potential fights in the bud? My kids childhoods are so vastly different than mine that I worry a bit. Will they be soft? Have my wife and I done them a disservice by not having more adversity in their life?

I try to challenge them in certain ways, but they are so innocent at 10 & 12. Like I knew way more shit about sex, drugs, fighting etc than they do when I was 9.

I feel like and have said as much to my 12 year old, that now is the time he needs to understand and step up his work ethic to create better habits and be successful in life. Don't get me wrong he has a decent work ethic right now and is a really good kid, but success school comes pretty easy to him and I have not pushed him hard in sports. I told him now is the time he needs to start pushing himself to practice more if he wants to have success in High School Athletics. My rule that they are both well aware of is when they get to High School they have 3 choices.

1. Get straight A's and take honors classes etc
2. Get decent grades and play sports
3. get decent grades and get a job

Meaning they won't just come home every day and play video games. While I do love video games and I do see value in them, I believe for them to be successful well rounded adults they need to do more.

Hateyou · Nov 12, 2021

Oblio said:
Had a conversation with my Dad yesterday. He brought up how big my boys are and how he bets no one would mess with them. This was a constant theme of my childhood, my Dad put a lot of emphasis on physical altercations. I always felt like he was encouraging me to fight as he would brag about his glory days of kicking ass in High School, College and even post College. I saw my Dad get into at least two physical fights when I was kid.

I did not grow up poor, but we were lower middle class/blue collar. I lived in a relatively safe area, but this was the 1980s when I was in elementary school. I saw fights monthly if not weekly in school and I would say that did not slow down until I transferred into a private religious high school my freshmen year. Even at the private school there were a handful of fights every year. I was no angel and was involved in my fair share of these fights.

Anyway, in response to my Dad I was like I don't think the kids have ever seen a physical alteration at their school. I do not recall them ever coming homing and telling me about one. So I asked my oldest son if he had ever seen a fight at school? He responded no and gave me a look as if to say why would that ever happen?

I am wondering why this is exactly? Is it because we have moved to a great community? Are parents just better now a days? Are kids just better? Are teachers on higher alert and nip potential fights in the bud? My kids childhoods are so vastly different than mine that I worry a bit. Will they be soft? Have my wife and I done them a disservice by not having more adversity in their life?

I try to challenge them in certain ways, but they are so innocent at 10 & 12. Like I knew way more shit about sex, drugs, fighting etc than they do when I was 9.

I feel like and have said as much to my 12 year old, that now is the time he needs to understand and step up his work ethic to create better habits and be successful in life. Don't get me wrong he has a decent work ethic right now and is a really good kid, but success school comes pretty easy to him and I have not pushed him hard in sports. I told him now is the time he needs to start pushing himself to practice more if he wants to have success in High School Athletics. My rule that they are both well aware of is when they get to High School they have 3 choices.

1. Get straight A's and take honors classes etc
2. Get decent grades and play sports
3. get decent grades and get a job

Meaning they won't just come home every day and play video games. While I do love video games and I do see value in them, I believe for them to be successful well rounded adults they need to do more.

I’ll tell you what. Give me your address and I’ll come by once a month and fight your kids til they toughen up.

On a serious note, I think about this too. My kid is only 6 so there’s plenty of time but he has it easy compared to my childhood. We grew up very poor. Homeless for a bit (Didn’t have to live in a car or anything but had to stay in one room at relatives house with 2 adults and 3 siblings), no money, small amount or no food at times. I was physically abused by a step dad to where school got involved due to bruising. After high school I had shitty jobs for years, not much money, had to sell possessions to pay rent when I didn’t have a job, etc. I live good now but understand how good I have it compared to a lot of people. If something happens where we started losing things it would suck but I’ve been through it before so I could deal with it. So far my son has never had to deal with anything like that at all. The only thing he gets is when him and neighbor kids fight and that’s nothing really. I wonder that if he never experienced bad shit while growing up, will he be able to handle it as an adult? Will he have meltdowns about trivial stuff when he is a teen and an adult?

Captain Suave · Nov 12, 2021

Oblio said:
I am wondering why this is exactly?

I think about this as well. I was on the receiving end of more physical bullying from my peers than I think occurs anywhere in my kids' school these days. I grew up in a pretty nice upper-middle class area, so I don't think it has much to do with community. Kids can be heinous shits in any circumstance.

If I had to hazard a guess, I think what we're seeing is the product of several generations of reducing the social acceptability of violence. There is no doubt a perpetuating cycle from bullies (both adult and juvenile) to the bullied, which we may be breaking by lowering the incidence of domestic altercations and corporal punishment and no longer looking the other way when kids decide to go all Lord of the Flies on each other. On net, I think this is a good thing.

That said, zero-tolerance enforcement at schools is absolutely stupid and misses important opportunities to model nuanced adult judgement and talk about bedrock fundamental rights and responsibilities (self-defense vs antagonism, etc.). There are also extremely important lessons developed through the ability to carry yourself through situations of stress and physical confrontation.

I don't think that uncontrolled public violence is the best way to teach those lessons, however. Martial arts training was a hugely transformative in my personal development as an early adult, and I'm definitely going to insist that my kids train when they hit their early teen years. IMO everyone should train and develop some baseline skill and discipline with fighting. The physical capacity and confidence bleed into almost everything that is important in life.

ToeMissile · Nov 12, 2021

The bullying is transitioning from physical to virtual/social. My wife is in education and has to deal with that shit all the time.
People are animals; kids are animals with a little less self control.

Captain Suave · Nov 12, 2021

ToeMissile said:
People are animals; kids are animals with a little less self control.

One parenting maxim that has stuck with me over the years goes roughly, "Children are wild animals who need to be tamed." This seems broadly true. In total seriousness, I treat my kids like I do my dogs: Firm, clear, simple boundaries, consistent responsibilities, and plenty of food and love. It seems to have worked so far, in both cases.

ToeMissile · Nov 12, 2021

Captain Suave said:
One parenting maxim that has stuck with me over the years goes roughly, "Children are wild animals who need to be tamed." This seems broadly true. In total seriousness, I treat my kids like I do my dogs: Firm, clear, simple boundaries, consistent responsibilities, and plenty of food and love. It seems to have worked so far, in both cases.

I would substitute “taught to focus” for “tamed” but potato-potato. Otherwise, 100% with you.

Prodigal · Nov 12, 2021

What put things in to perspective for me was learning that children generally are not able to use reason until 7 years old at the earliest and probably 9 on average. Explained a lot.

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