Mist
REEEEeyore
- 31,512
- 24,005
Low-level skill gems are also important for higher level characters who need to pick up weird off-spec spells like Fire Wall or Herald of Ash.
- 2
Path of Exile 2
- Thread starter Kiroy
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
rhinohelix
Dental Dammer
- 3,132
- 5,160
"I'm pinned in and trapped. I know 'Escape Shot!" <supposed to do a high leap, move out of area and shoot down into the crowd but because early access.jpg, just jumps in place and dies> "I guess those snakes were just too tall."
I Flash Grenade/Explosive Grenade/Explosive Shot my way to freedom when I get trapped now.
Hopefully the incredible response to POE2 will teach AA/AAA devs that the path to Riches and Glory is to build challenging games with good basic systems in them as a foundation. You don't have to dumb everything down. "Interaction" and "Engagement" and other shareholder buzzwords are byproducts of successful development, not its object. D4 spent unnecessary corporate bloat millions and ended up with legacy code, terrible DB design (every player loads every visible players inventory and stash?) and teams that couldn't provide balance to save their games life (a team for each different class wtf). End result? Moment to moment gameplay is good but everything else sucks; challenge is provided by stacking numbers.
GGG seems to be on the precipice of making something all time genre-defining great. We'll see if they stick the landing or not.
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Xevy
Log Wizard
- 8,956
- 4,221
Man I'd rather be playing than make a huge breakdown, but here's my notes from the "GGG shill", 15k+ hours PoE1er, and PoEReddit hater:
-Early game is fine, but around the end of act 1-2 there can be serious power problems that lead people to being very frustrated. I took me 18 minutes to kill the Constrictor.
-Power balance is weirdly tied to various places: Summoners are holy passive tree dependent, melee weapon dependent, and casters gem support dependent. A lot of these are fixed by "combos" that most people don't know about.
-Crafting is tuned for high end around things like omens and essences which we don't have. They need a sub-currency that works on ilvl 60 and under items like alts or a baby exalt.
-There is no "best". I have melee guildmates one shotting map bosses. Casters struggling and also perma freezing bosses. Minions is just getting to the point half way through Cruel where I feel like I have the dps everyone else had. No one I know has done totems. Grenades are powerful, but they're just casters with an xbow.
-The lack of some slots for shit like runes, waystones is bad. It's obviously coming, but we already had map tabs for waystones and currency tab and runes should be a no-brainer.
-"Recommended Gems" needs to be OFF and needs to have a big glowing thing by it for true newbs. I was like 35 before I figured out I could turn it off because I was like "where the fuck are these datamined gems?"
-The gem tab needs to let you A: preview all supports/skills at any time without having an uncut on you. B: Allow you to see what supports work with what gems because I'm NOT ALL OF THE SUPPORT GEMS THAT WORK ARE SHOWN ON THE "SHOW ALL GEMS" TAB FOR EACH SKILL. This is bad.
-The game balance of this is off. In PoE1 you get major powerstrikes via supports or weapon upgrades. Only some people get that so others struggle. The game plays in the starting zone very similary to how it plays mid game in the 40's to 50's for some people, but with more buttons in terms of kill time. That doesn't quite sit right.
-Bosses are definitely fun to learn, but with low, low dps (I literally killed several bosses with just a 0 link frostbomb because minions suck ass) can make them feel tedious. They should be 1 minute fights, not 5+ minute fights. I think reducing either the boss hp or the one hit damage on non-Cruel bosses would help the casual a bit. Probably not both though.
-Mobs respawning on death is bad. It's frustrating to dungeon crawl through a zone (BEETLES MUCH?) and then die right before the next checkpoint and spend another 30 minutes slogging through again.
-Loot CAN feel underwhelming, especially from bosses, but again you're going to get juice in maps that the campaign doesn't get. I don't think they want people to chain farm rares from 50 zones off easy bosses because the tiering system really jumps in Cruel+ and gear gets VERY powerful. This is just a balance thing.
-People need to understand "combos". They want you using multiple skills for a reason, you're not supposed to one button, they want everyone using 2-3 buttons BUT being rewarded for it, which A LOT of the skills do. Even for minions our best dps is the same Sniper Gas Cloud into Arsonist detonate or Firewall detonate. A lot of people are one buttoning around and they may clear well or boss well, but probably not both and they're not sure why. It's just a different mindset than PoE 1.
-THE ASCENDANCY SHIT IS BAD. There's FAR too much RNG packed in there and ESPECIALLY the Ultimatum style where you basically have to Sophie's Choice "Hmm, do I get tethered and stunned with no recourse OR...do I have no defenses?" The worst part is when "no defenses" is your BEST CHOICE. The Sanctum can also be pretty rough, but at least relics help mitigate shit and you get some sort of illusion of choice for the most part until you gimp yourself to hell. Shit like the Merchant also is nice to unfuck yourself if you make it far enough.
Basically I'd say I told many, many people too intimidated by PoE1 to try PoE2 when it comes out thinking it'd be less complicated and easier to learn. I think that's not the case. I think it's the same level of complication and with more difficult play mechanics. The stuff like respawning trash on death is just brutal. If they wanted to make a game for the "everyman" I think they missed their mark and they basically added GigaPoE for Chads, which is going to alienate a lot of the new people they wanted to bring in. The numbers will tell, they were at like 550k concurrent on steam Saturday, which is amazing, but we'll see how it trends over the week, especially if they don't do a capitulation patch and nerf a bunch of difficulty.
I will say, even doing 18 dps (literally) for the first 18 hours of the game, it was a very nice looking, nice feeling game. It fucks. It makes D4 look like dogshit with it's shitty browns and lazy demon design. I can't remember a single boss from D4 and I can already tell how many people are going to remember Count Gooner from Act 1 for years to come.
TL;DR
Game is hard. Maybe shouldn't be. Wait for guides/tips from real PoErs later to tell you how to get through the slow parts of the game. Game itself is very polished and feels great outside power balance. Easy 9.3/10 but I'm a PoE enjoyer so who the fuck knows what that means.
-Early game is fine, but around the end of act 1-2 there can be serious power problems that lead people to being very frustrated. I took me 18 minutes to kill the Constrictor.
-Power balance is weirdly tied to various places: Summoners are holy passive tree dependent, melee weapon dependent, and casters gem support dependent. A lot of these are fixed by "combos" that most people don't know about.
-Crafting is tuned for high end around things like omens and essences which we don't have. They need a sub-currency that works on ilvl 60 and under items like alts or a baby exalt.
-There is no "best". I have melee guildmates one shotting map bosses. Casters struggling and also perma freezing bosses. Minions is just getting to the point half way through Cruel where I feel like I have the dps everyone else had. No one I know has done totems. Grenades are powerful, but they're just casters with an xbow.
-The lack of some slots for shit like runes, waystones is bad. It's obviously coming, but we already had map tabs for waystones and currency tab and runes should be a no-brainer.
-"Recommended Gems" needs to be OFF and needs to have a big glowing thing by it for true newbs. I was like 35 before I figured out I could turn it off because I was like "where the fuck are these datamined gems?"
-The gem tab needs to let you A: preview all supports/skills at any time without having an uncut on you. B: Allow you to see what supports work with what gems because I'm NOT ALL OF THE SUPPORT GEMS THAT WORK ARE SHOWN ON THE "SHOW ALL GEMS" TAB FOR EACH SKILL. This is bad.
-The game balance of this is off. In PoE1 you get major powerstrikes via supports or weapon upgrades. Only some people get that so others struggle. The game plays in the starting zone very similary to how it plays mid game in the 40's to 50's for some people, but with more buttons in terms of kill time. That doesn't quite sit right.
-Bosses are definitely fun to learn, but with low, low dps (I literally killed several bosses with just a 0 link frostbomb because minions suck ass) can make them feel tedious. They should be 1 minute fights, not 5+ minute fights. I think reducing either the boss hp or the one hit damage on non-Cruel bosses would help the casual a bit. Probably not both though.
-Mobs respawning on death is bad. It's frustrating to dungeon crawl through a zone (BEETLES MUCH?) and then die right before the next checkpoint and spend another 30 minutes slogging through again.
-Loot CAN feel underwhelming, especially from bosses, but again you're going to get juice in maps that the campaign doesn't get. I don't think they want people to chain farm rares from 50 zones off easy bosses because the tiering system really jumps in Cruel+ and gear gets VERY powerful. This is just a balance thing.
-People need to understand "combos". They want you using multiple skills for a reason, you're not supposed to one button, they want everyone using 2-3 buttons BUT being rewarded for it, which A LOT of the skills do. Even for minions our best dps is the same Sniper Gas Cloud into Arsonist detonate or Firewall detonate. A lot of people are one buttoning around and they may clear well or boss well, but probably not both and they're not sure why. It's just a different mindset than PoE 1.
-THE ASCENDANCY SHIT IS BAD. There's FAR too much RNG packed in there and ESPECIALLY the Ultimatum style where you basically have to Sophie's Choice "Hmm, do I get tethered and stunned with no recourse OR...do I have no defenses?" The worst part is when "no defenses" is your BEST CHOICE. The Sanctum can also be pretty rough, but at least relics help mitigate shit and you get some sort of illusion of choice for the most part until you gimp yourself to hell. Shit like the Merchant also is nice to unfuck yourself if you make it far enough.
Basically I'd say I told many, many people too intimidated by PoE1 to try PoE2 when it comes out thinking it'd be less complicated and easier to learn. I think that's not the case. I think it's the same level of complication and with more difficult play mechanics. The stuff like respawning trash on death is just brutal. If they wanted to make a game for the "everyman" I think they missed their mark and they basically added GigaPoE for Chads, which is going to alienate a lot of the new people they wanted to bring in. The numbers will tell, they were at like 550k concurrent on steam Saturday, which is amazing, but we'll see how it trends over the week, especially if they don't do a capitulation patch and nerf a bunch of difficulty.
I will say, even doing 18 dps (literally) for the first 18 hours of the game, it was a very nice looking, nice feeling game. It fucks. It makes D4 look like dogshit with it's shitty browns and lazy demon design. I can't remember a single boss from D4 and I can already tell how many people are going to remember Count Gooner from Act 1 for years to come.
TL;DR
Game is hard. Maybe shouldn't be. Wait for guides/tips from real PoErs later to tell you how to get through the slow parts of the game. Game itself is very polished and feels great outside power balance. Easy 9.3/10 but I'm a PoE enjoyer so who the fuck knows what that means.
- 6
- 1
- 1
tugofpeace
Trakanon Raider
- 471
- 1,042
Game is incredible. I just got to that druid in the cave. Died a couple times.. but its fun
Are rares worth anything? I found a rare crossbow and hammer. Don't know how to trade
Are rares worth anything? I found a rare crossbow and hammer. Don't know how to trade
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Daezuel
Potato del Grande
- 23,836
- 51,799
Yeah it's great but I really want to know the thought process behind disabling your keyboard and mouse while using a controller.
- 2
Mist
REEEEeyore
- 31,512
- 24,005
The entire UI code changes when you use a controller. Think like WoW loading an entirely different set of addons.
This is why I plan on rigging a non-controller controller using adaptive controllers.
But yeah, they could still let the mouse sort your fucking gems and inventory. I'm hoping they fix this eventually.
They seem to be able to hotswap it at character selection; they should be able to figure it out in game. The fact that the mouse half-works but not in useful ways is stupid.
- 2
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 43,199
- 110,720
This is absolutely true. Asmongold's best takes are from his understanding about how retarded the average retard gamer actually is. Every single person in this thread is 10X the gamer of average Joe Retard. Count Gooner is going to be way too difficult for them in the same way that Dark Souls is way too difficult for most gamers. To such an extent that Dark Souls enjoyed an infamous reputation of difficulty. That is what they tried to copy.
In game "starter builds" are going to be necessary to point them in the right direction on what skills to combo together and the Support Gem window will need to stop being completely full of shit.
- 2
- 16,954
- 7,968
Most modern arpgs allow controller hotswapping, there really is no excuse, in this game or poe1. Cynically, they probably identified it as valuable qol to be drip fed as "content" during the last few leagues. Thankfully, Jonathan said they are going to do it Soon.
- 2
Palum
what Suineg set it to
- 27,482
- 43,730
I was just about to post that I think they buffed drop rates just between the last two bosses i dropped. Rust king on cruel act 1 again dropped 3 rares lol.
- 1
Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 40,329
- 133,615
Yeah, I quit that one. I'll come back later way overgeared, cause that shit sucks. I skipped those entirely in PoE1 (don't remember what they're called).
Also, I've said it already, but these giant maps are so fucking retarded. Was doing the canal one a bit ago and after like the 10th lever I'm just sitting there thinking "holy shit, I get it." I'm sure they're proud of the game they built, but I didn't need to run through 40 of the fucking same canal.
Khane
Got something right about marriage
- 20,608
- 14,346
After you guys who haven't jumped on the "ugh" train realize that after you've gotten through your first or second playthrough and the "new smell" wears off that even though it is interesting and compelling that first or second time, after that its still an ARPG and you have to keep doing this.... over... and over... and over again. Almost the entire game is regressive. The controls and graphics are basically the only thing that isn't. This is not a single player game, you are not guaranteed your boss sword or armor and specialty item after you power through and defeat it. You might get... absolutely nothing useful for that hour you just spent learning and finally beating that side boss.
The mapping system is especially regressive. Having the random completion objectives and not showing things like rares that you need to kill until under 50 mobs... haha. That's straight up something from like 1999 where that kind of tech was simply too hard to implement or some shit.
That being said. "Slow down the game for us oldies!" Well... they slowed down character movement, but they haven't slowed down enemies or removed their ability to flicker, teleport, jump all over the fuckin place.
Here's your new and improved less screen cancer PoE2 (kidding!). Now with much, much easier mechanisms to create autobomber trigger builds without any special gear required! This is literally the games only saving grace at the moment. The skill and character design is exceptionally good.
The mapping system is especially regressive. Having the random completion objectives and not showing things like rares that you need to kill until under 50 mobs... haha. That's straight up something from like 1999 where that kind of tech was simply too hard to implement or some shit.
That being said. "Slow down the game for us oldies!" Well... they slowed down character movement, but they haven't slowed down enemies or removed their ability to flicker, teleport, jump all over the fuckin place.
Here's your new and improved less screen cancer PoE2 (kidding!). Now with much, much easier mechanisms to create autobomber trigger builds without any special gear required! This is literally the games only saving grace at the moment. The skill and character design is exceptionally good.