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Kythik

Kythik

Molten Core Raider
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Deathwing said:
Time-based snapshots of supply and price could allow you to extrapolate effective rarity. I don't know if that data exists.

And, yes, I agree, HH and MF gear should be removed. HH because it restricts design space. And both because they increase "drops per map".
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I'm not trying to go with the slippery slope fallacy, but with the effective increased drops per map in mind, wouldn't you also want insane MS builds to be removed? If the loot system were to be reworked I'd fully support MF to be removed--as it is though I'd probably stop playing if it were. Personally, I would rather the HH be insanely common, with mechanics worked around it, just due to the overall fun that the items provides--though, it requires certain builds to be at max efficacy. Maybe even as a true skill tree node not requiring something similar to ILs.

I really hope in either 3.8 or 3.9 GGG does something to address the watering down with new league mechanics. At this point, unless one spends a lot of currency target farming, the average player probably sees close to no benefit from any of them. It took me about 1000 maps, not target farming, to get my betrayal board right. Then I spent another 1500 to perfect the board, with full rivalries, before I fucking clicked remove rivalries by accident. Also, the ROI disparity that exists should be addressed.
 
OU Ariakas

OU Ariakas

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If they hard nerfed HH and added even a consumable only AH in one patch I would *literally* donate $1,000 to them immediately.
 
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Bubbles

Bubbles

2022 Asshat Award Winner
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OU Ariakas said:
If they hard nerfed HH and added even a consumable only AH in one patch I would *literally* donate $1,000 to them immediately.
Click to expand...

you could donate 1k to me and then pretend that HH nerf happened. I'd be very ok with that
 
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Deathwing

Deathwing

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Kythik said:
I'm not trying to go with the slippery slope fallacy, but with the effective increased drops per map in mind, wouldn't you also want insane MS builds to be removed? If the loot system were to be reworked I'd fully support MF to be removed--as it is though I'd probably stop playing if it were. Personally, I would rather the HH be insanely common, with mechanics worked around it, just due to the overall fun that the items provides--though, it requires certain builds to be at max efficacy. Maybe even as a true skill tree node not requiring something similar to ILs.

I really hope in either 3.8 or 3.9 GGG does something to address the watering down with new league mechanics. At this point, unless one spends a lot of currency target farming, the average player probably sees close to no benefit from any of them. It took me about 1000 maps, not target farming, to get my betrayal board right. Then I spent another 1500 to perfect the board, with full rivalries, before I fucking clicked remove rivalries by accident. Also, the ROI disparity that exists should be addressed.
Click to expand...
No, movement speed is "drops per time". Just because you complete a map faster doesn't mean you got more drops per map. I'm fine with "drops per time", that's a core principle of ARPGs.
 
Kythik

Kythik

Molten Core Raider
736
369
Deathwing said:
No, movement speed is "drops per time". Just because you complete a map faster doesn't mean you got more drops per map. I'm fine with "drops per time", that's a core principle of ARPGs.
Click to expand...

But, HH only gives you more drops per time as 700%MS does--other than the 5 way which will be insanely rare and nerfed anyway. How does HH give one more drops per map?
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

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It doesn't, my complaints about HH are completely within the context of Timeless Domain. I'm being vocal about it because it sucks to see content so warped by one item and then the lesson learned incorrectly.
 
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Kythik

Kythik

Molten Core Raider
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369
Deathwing said:
It doesn't, my complaints about HH are completely within the context of Timeless Domain. I'm being vocal about it because it sucks to see content so warped by one item and then the lesson learned incorrectly.
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Timeless Domain felt completely tuned with HH in mind, to begin with. Even then, the returns were abysmal based on my ~200 ran (60-150s post visual cap on all of them), especially so with the price inflation on my last 60 runs. If they actually wanted to be fair, and not limit builds or gear, the encounter would have a finite number of mobs that spawn and if you kill them all in 1 minute or 5 everyone gets the same chances. Maybe my RNG was ass but other than the risk-free XP I probably won't be running 5ways again--unless something is done with the historic jewel fuckery.

TD was nowhere near as good as I feel you believe it was. Maybe with that streamer luck?
 
Caeden

Caeden

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The more I’m theorycrafting for next league, the more I’m realizing all the decent melee skills are really more ranged (lacerate and perforate stand out). The game needs to grind the clear speed meta out of existence. You can’t though because it’s fundamental to a currency driven game. Otherwise I see this game barreling toward homegeneity.

I also think they need to bite the bullet and rotate league mechanics a la Zana mods and shit. Of course, that is a major rework because really delve and betrayal should be rotated some too.
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

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Kythik said:
Timeless Domain felt completely tuned with HH in mind, to begin with. Even then, the returns were abysmal based on my ~200 ran (60-150s post visual cap on all of them), especially so with the price inflation on my last 60 runs. If they actually wanted to be fair, and not limit builds or gear, the encounter would have a finite number of mobs that spawn and if you kill them all in 1 minute or 5 everyone gets the same chances. Maybe my RNG was ass but other than the risk-free XP I probably won't be running 5ways again--unless something is done with the historic jewel fuckery.

TD was nowhere near as good as I feel you believe it was. Maybe with that streamer luck?
Click to expand...
TD was probably good without the inflated prices on maraketh emblems.
 
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Evernothing

Evernothing

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Betrayl is awful. I'm on my 3rd character of the league and I still have not had access to a Safehouse.

It was a great league mechanic. It's terrible in core. It doesn't occur frequently enough, or the intelligence values are too small to achieve anything. Aside from that, I can't be bothered to keep a guide on my 2nd screen to make sure my members go to the best sections of the board. It's too esoteric to be such a sporadic core mechanic.

At least with Alva you can see in-game, OK, this room becomes a Corruption Chamber, or Strongobx Chamber, or whatever. With Betrayal you have to remember what Janus is in Transportation or Intervention? Unveliing items sucks too. I don't want to pick this thing up and pass it to Jun to identify in hopes I get a crafting recipe.
 
Kythik

Kythik

Molten Core Raider
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369
Deathwing said:
TD was probably good without the inflated prices on maraketh emblems.
Click to expand...

Even with the original prices, and farming a good portion of my emblems doing alleyways/glacier, doing the 5way was a loss. The loss nearly doubled with the inflated prices at the end. Again, maybe my RNG was ass-- the only notable item was a helm with TS +2 enchant--but the general consensus from others that did as many as I had was that it's loss in the long run. Granted, no one I had talked to had a HH or mirror drop for them. The one post I had seen the guy sold the extra HH and bought a quad full of emblems which ended with a loss.

Honestly, TD, without a finite count, felt similar to China P2W content. Spend an obscene amount on gear to see minimal gains but the hype says you can score big. The encounter was boring, even the first 5way I ran on my ED toon. I laugh when I see GGG talk about "end game" legion content. shit, an Acrylia Caverns style ring event would have been more fun.
 
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Deathwing

Deathwing

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Kythik said:
Even with the original prices, and farming a good portion of my emblems doing alleyways/glacier, doing the 5way was a loss. The loss nearly doubled with the inflated prices at the end. Again, maybe my RNG was ass-- the only notable item was a helm with TS +2 enchant--but the general consensus from others that did as many as I had was that it's loss in the long run. Granted, no one I had talked to had a HH or mirror drop for them. The one post I had seen the guy sold the extra HH and bought a quad full of emblems which ended with a loss.

Honestly, TD, without a finite count, felt similar to China P2W content. Spend an obscene amount on gear to see minimal gains but the hype says you can score big. The encounter was boring, even the first 5way I ran on my ED toon. I laugh when I see GGG talk about "end game" legion content. shit, an Acrylia Caverns style ring event would have been more fun.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I'll admit I was going on word of mouth and perception. I think the principle of the matter, don't balance content around items, still holds though.
 
Kythik

Kythik

Molten Core Raider
736
369
Deathwing said:
Interesting. I'll admit I was going on word of mouth and perception. I think the principle of the matter, don't balance content around items, still holds though.
Click to expand...

Meh, I'm okay with this one piece of content being balanced around the HH. It's a currency loss, even more so with the manifesto changes. And as we've seen with other league mechanics, it'll be rare and require target farming--which will add more expense. I'm anticipating Maraketh emblems to be rarer than Chay splinters were a year or two ago. I doubt the changes to delve and Betrayal will make a dent in the reduction of emblems in the market due to it not being the main league mechanic.
 
Caeden

Caeden

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So I target farmed Betrayal and got pretty persnickety about having a 3 star reward and some sacrifices to jail for %. It felt good on all four of my characters. But I really had to micromanage and target it. Account wide would have been amazing for me.
 
Warmuth

Warmuth

Molten Core Raider
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520
Kythik said:
Meh, I'm okay with this one piece of content being balanced around the HH. It's a currency loss, even more so with the manifesto changes. And as we've seen with other league mechanics, it'll be rare and require target farming--which will add more expense. I'm anticipating Maraketh emblems to be rarer than Chay splinters were a year or two ago. I doubt the changes to delve and Betrayal will make a dent in the reduction of emblems in the market due to it not being the main league mechanic.
Click to expand...

The biggest problem with legion was when the dude you were doing resets for hit 100 and now the exp gravy train was over. I doubt I’ll ever have the patience to hit 98 much less 100 without similar shenanigans.
 
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Mahes

Mahes

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I am enjoying this game as a new person. Looking at this discussion leads me to believe that this game becomes a lot more involved when I reach level cap. I had somebody give me a leg one hander that helped my fire build. I get the feeling that Fire is not considered a good high end farming spec but it is easy to play so far. I want to try a pet spec as I enjoyed the Witch Doctor in D3 and it farmed very well at the high end. I am just specing Fire related damage in the skill tree. It seems to work.

If there is a fire based spec that is great at high end farming, please link it. I am such a newb to this game.
 
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