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Deathwing

Deathwing

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ronne said:
Yea I think when they did the initial melee rework the idea was to give melee 'better' leech wheels, which was actually true at the time. The real issue in todays PoE is that phys-specific leech is useless, because there's so few builds that actually deal phys damage. Like there legitimately might only be one (boneshatter), and even then they don't really need more than a single leech wheel someplace, which makes the other 2-3 phys leech wheels entirely redundant.

Phys > ele defenses are truly stupid though. It's the only way in the game currently to actually really feel properly 'tanky', because there's no mods/attacks/etc that can penetrate or overcome it, so it just always works as expected. Having 90 all max res is fine until you hit one mob that has %ele penetration and you still just die like a bitch. Or you try and do Exarch who just has giga pen built in to everything he does etc. Same is true for traditional phys mitigation via armor, charges, whatever - none of it actually works as expected because you'll just die to overwhelm mods randomly.
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There's gotta be some favoritism going on at GGG. I was watching CaptainLance yesterday and he mentioned that there's a haunted modifier that prevents cold, fire, or lightning penetration. But no "can't be overwhelmed". Someone invested into a sublime vision build and then ate an atziri flameblast on a voided map is my guess.
 
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ronne

ronne

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I don't think it's favoritism but rather the opposite - legit I don't think anyone at GGG plays 'melee' setups like that at all seriously.

Certainly Mark and Johnathan don't, to the point where they have outright derision for it in interviews and lament how old/bad the PoE1 engine is and how no one wants to fix or work on melee skills due to garbage animation limitations etc.

I'm pretty worried at this point that their answer to 'pls fix melee' is just going to be for people to go play PoE2, and leave current PoE as the land of DD/autobombers/aurabots etc.
 
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Ossoi

Ossoi

Potato del Grande
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yeah it seems pretty stupid.

Levelled my first "second character" over the weekend - a lvl 91 Deadeye, first char this league is a lvl 95 boneshatter jugg.

The jugg lost a bunch of xp to the Plaza boss with the green life drain. But the +5/6 level lower archer just stood out of range and killed it off screen lol. Not even sure if the archer has good gear - a bow I necropolis crafted myself that doesn't have all 3 ele dmg types. But it just goes into shrine/breach maps with head-hunter and rampage gloves then just stands there whilst I hold down lightning arrow. The screen glows until I feel like Oppenheimer and it gets a level every 2 maps at the moment.

I went back to Jugg with the same shrine/breach atlas and it just felt dumb
 
ronne

ronne

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Finished up the T17 challenge today and I think I can pretty well pinpoint the biggest issue I have with those maps.

There's fucking DD goddamn everywhere in them. I tried replacing the entire contents of the map with frogs/rats and it STILL spawns the black 4-legged abyssal skeleton brute guys that spawn abyssal DD totems because I guess that's just their idea of difficulty these days? So you spend a pile of time and chaos rolling a map that looks runnable and still randomly get to explode cause you dared to go pick up an item next to an imminent corpse explosion.

It doesn't help that I can't see fucking anything with volcanic fissures everywhere lol
 
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Xevy

Xevy

Log Wizard
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Reddit #1 post is about "retention" and all the comments are about how this league is "boring" and "the worst league ever". I literally don't know what they want. I'm not sure Reddit will ever be happy unless they have some super secret mirror farming strat only they know then it's automatically "THE BEST LEAGUE!!11!!!1!!!!!". Like, everything is affordable, there's a million ways to make money, a bunch of builds are viable, and T17's are HARD. Actual HARD content that isn't 4 div per map juiced T18 bullshit from leagues ago.

Yes graveyard is clunky and the inventory is annoying. That is 100% true. It also PRINTS OUT MIRROR TIER ITEMS. Like, you have to have one with the other to a degree or it trivializes the entire game or it's worthless. It's not going core so who the fuck cares. I laughed when some guy said he like Crucible better. No you didn't, retard.

T17's are rough, but they're supposed to be. Gating Ubers behind them is probably not the best idea, at least not at 5 pieces per uber. But you can use CHAOS (oh look, a currency sink making divine costs reasonable?!?!?) to roll easier maps. After lantern is taken out shit will most likely be MUCH smoother mob wise and until then you can frog/rat shit that's rough.

These fucks want Magebloods to be cheap until they find one then they need to be worth 400 divines. They're just the most braindead, myopic, whiney, know-nothing players that "have over 2k hours" and I wish they all would fuck off and suffer through D4 or some other shit ARPG to understand how bad it is out there. There's always polish and blind QoL each league we want, but jesus fuck the Reddit QQ babies are just the reason video games get pulled into a 1000 dumb directions and self destruct before some of them are even born nowadays.
 
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krismunich

krismunich

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you POE ultras are a radical bunch, just saying. It's no longer just an ARPG, it's a religious movement now.
 
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Juvarisx

Juvarisx

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Deathwing said:
Poison holy relic can supposedly run a ton of map mods, but no idea about T17 map mods. Don't count on your support minions living however.

Lower-left trees get double fucked by shitty leech wheels and phys overwhelm mods on rares.
Click to expand...

I've ran the holy relic build for 3 weeks now, while a mageblood is fun you really need a Darkness Enthroned at 100% to fit everything. Getting 60% minion poison just on the belt really makes the build tankier since you can fit in Forbidden Flame/Flesh (mainly to keep animate guardian alive) and Amanamu's Gaze is 100% required to scale damage.

If you havea boat load of currency I'd just start here to look at it min maxed, few pretty expensive pieces but theres more expensive builds.

pobb.in

Level 97 MoM Summon Holy Relic of Conviction Necromancer [3.24]

➤ Life: 5,436 [167%]ㆍES: 829ㆍMana: 74 [20%]ㆍeHP: 1,280,723 ➤ Resistances: 76%/85%/75%/75%ㆍBlock: 75%ㆍSpell Block: 75%ㆍArmour: 37,596 ➤ DPS: 17,224,124ㆍSpeed: 6.06ㆍHit Chance: 100% ➤ Config: Pinnacle, 15x Wither, Custom Mods
pobb.in pobb.in

(You can cut the viridian jewel, thats there so you can run no regen maps corrupted blood doesnt really do anything against this build) The abyss socket on a weapon is stupid rare.

Its probably the first minion build I ever enjoyed playing, and iit wasn't really an issue killing all the Uber Uber's and T17's etc with it.
 
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ronne

ronne

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Xevy said:
Reddit #1 post is about "retention" and all the comments are about how this league is "boring" and "the worst league ever". I literally don't know what they want. I'm not sure Reddit will ever be happy unless they have some super secret mirror farming strat only they know then it's automatically "THE BEST LEAGUE!!11!!!1!!!!!". Like, everything is affordable, there's a million ways to make money, a bunch of builds are viable, and T17's are HARD. Actual HARD content that isn't 4 div per map juiced T18 bullshit from leagues ago.

Yes graveyard is clunky and the inventory is annoying. That is 100% true. It also PRINTS OUT MIRROR TIER ITEMS. Like, you have to have one with the other to a degree or it trivializes the entire game or it's worthless. It's not going core so who the fuck cares. I laughed when some guy said he like Crucible better. No you didn't, retard.

T17's are rough, but they're supposed to be. Gating Ubers behind them is probably not the best idea, at least not at 5 pieces per uber. But you can use CHAOS (oh look, a currency sink making divine costs reasonable?!?!?) to roll easier maps. After lantern is taken out shit will most likely be MUCH smoother mob wise and until then you can frog/rat shit that's rough.

These fucks want Magebloods to be cheap until they find one then they need to be worth 400 divines. They're just the most braindead, myopic, whiney, know-nothing players that "have over 2k hours" and I wish they all would fuck off and suffer through D4 or some other shit ARPG to understand how bad it is out there. There's always polish and blind QoL each league we want, but jesus fuck the Reddit QQ babies are just the reason video games get pulled into a 1000 dumb directions and self destruct before some of them are even born nowadays.
Click to expand...

The graveyard is a pretty big miss. Remember, the state its in now is only after they giga juiced the whole thing to be like 10x more accessible than it was at launch, and even after that managing is still a fucking trainwreck. I've got more quad tabs than any sane person should full of corpses and if I want to go roll an item I still have to spend an hour on the trade site filling in gaps.

There's just so many baffling decisions with it. Why is there a big asymmetric grid? Why is there an entire other room that serves no purpose other than to lag to shit with bodies in it if your storage is full? Why is the storage limited in size as it is, aside from being able to fill the useless morgue room? Why was the solution to making rarer corpses harder to farm to make them a weird shitty popup that obscures the screen and can't be filtered?

The entire thing is a design and UX hellscape. It's so baffling by its very nature that I have serious questions for whoever came up with this and then who looked at it and said 'yea this looks fun'.

The items themselves of course as utterly absurd, but again a large part of that is because they juiced the numbers on the bodies so much, to the point that for many gear slots even bothering to use the graveyard is pointless because so many perfect copies of the item you want already exist that they are near worthless. All it does it hyper accelerate the gear acquisition process for most slots, which I'm sure is what is leading in no small part to poor retention - when you can have a previously mirror-tier bow with 100c worth of corpses, what the fuck else is there to even do?
 
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Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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II'm all about the "failed" graveyard items. You can definitely sign me up for a fractured conc effect minion damage immolate hat for 20c. That shit is hilarious. I was looking for some ES gloves and there was a mirrored pair for sale with 280 ES and the T1 dex I needed for a whopping 4d. Just someone's bonus prize from their graveyard. It's like the Island of Misfit Toys out there. I hope someone writes a parody of Macklemore's Thrift Shop song about this league.

Actually interacting with the graveyard myself is a bad time. I set up all of my atlases with the make lantern modifiers random keystone because I don't care for that either. T17 maps are the most "hey buddy maybe this game isn't for you" I've experienced since showing up to my first Sirus with 950k dps. It doesn't surprise me that retention is ass. You get rolled in a couple of those and that's kind of it. I can't even get my 5th map device slot without completing one? The difficulty jump hobbling through a 4-way and completing a T17 is completely unreasonable. If it wasn't for the novelty of the graveyard gear combined with the couple different characters I've tried I would have bailed a while ago. Even so I'm just derping around. The challenges are really grindy and power farming maps to acquire the character power I need has never been my thing.
 
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Deathwing

Deathwing

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Reddit, and players in general, have repeatedly shown to be very happy when developers fix mistakes and progress. The Necropolis graveyard was yet another return to sadistic/incompetent UI design. It's not at all surprising that this taints a player's opinion of the league. Necropolis is supposed to be main attraction for many players and it sucks to interact with.

I would love a retrospective on how much design time was spent on some of these UI elements. The only way it makes sense is they gave one guy a half day.
 
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stankwoo

stankwoo

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I messed around with the graveyard crafting for a bit and once I saw what was needed to get these god tier items I noped the fuck out - personally I do not want to spend my playing time interacting with a dogshit UI and all the other headaches that come with it. I am not angry about it, I just go and do something else in the game that has damn near infinite things to work on at all times. Crying about it is definitely a Reddit thing.

Granted I am relatively new to the endgame [Level 93 MoM Crit CoC Detonate Dead of Chain Reaction Inquisitor [3.24]] and still learning like drinking from a fire hose - I feel like the gripes about the economy, farming strats, etc. are way overblown in a typical Reddit style. You have three Atlas trees and a wealth of videos out there talking about the "best farming strategy" - just pick a few and fuck around with them. I have been trying different things and I have never felt like I am not making progress. I am not printing 50 divine an hour and I don't expect to either. Be thankful that expensive items you would never be able to get close to are now within reach.
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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Crucible oddly gated the meme builds which made no sense to me. I'm not going to go buy a +2 wand to then take the time to roll up a good Crucible tree for skeletons convert to a random element when we all know that's just not going to be that great. Instead it was way easier to bolt a couple nodes of +gooder on to something that was already good and never look back.
 
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E

elidib

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One of the (many) problems with corpse-crafting is that it's either a god-tier item, or it's just a random piece of garbage off the ground. There is zero in-between. If you don't stack pre-selected mods up to the high heavens, it only takes one wrong roll to brick the item into a 1c dud. Expecting anything usable for a normal player out of this system shows how out of touch it is.
 
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Penance

Penance

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They could've cut the corpse grid down 75% and it wouldve been infinitely better. Make corpse 10x rarer and 4x more impactful and call it a day. As usual the idea is great, the implementation is garbage and it's Achilles, as usual, is the UX
 
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Thregin

Thregin

Blackwing Lair Raider
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This league falls in the same camp as kalandra and crucible for me. Crafting so convoluted and tedious I couldn't be bothered directly interacting with it.
That couldve been fine but i had other issues too like t17 and scarab changes etc that i quite quickly (for me) checked out and stopped caring.
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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elidib said:
One of the (many) problems with corpse-crafting is that it's either a god-tier item, or it's just a random piece of garbage off the ground. There is zero in-between. If you don't stack pre-selected mods up to the high heavens, it only takes one wrong roll to brick the item into a 1c dud. Expecting anything usable for a normal player out of this system shows how out of touch it is.
Click to expand...

Every time I've thought "that's probably enough" I was wrong. That you want to stuff every single grave with something isn't well conveyed until you fuck a couple things up.
 
Xevy

Xevy

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The graveyard is clunky, but it's like OG harvest. You have to spend time to figure out how to do it "right" and then it's just infinite power. Sure, you probably have to check Reddit for some graphic on how to do it (though they just straight up have tool websites now), but it's so much fucking power it's insane. Like I said, they either give you S+ power levels and you have to jump through hoops OR they give you some B tier mechanic you can maybe get lucky but a booger-eater can do without any thought process involved. Then we'd just see 1000 "omg I don't get anything GOOD from gravecrafting!" posts instead of the "I have to many corpses and not enough things I need to craft!!!!!" posts.

The fact they're itemized and you can bulk sell them for insane amounts of money is also hilarious. Don't like crafting? OKAY SELL EVERY CORPSE DIPSHIT. This is something that was TFT only for shit like Harvest for TOO long until they created lifeforce. They baked the QoL people always wanted right in from the beginning. They did take a week or so to add it to bulk sales, but jfc if you don't like crafting fill up on corpses, dump corpses to sales tab, sell all corpses, rub your 5 divines you got passively all over your doughy boomer body.
 
Penance

Penance

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Man you really have a problem on differing opinions of design. Ever think you're the problem?

1715209311618.png
 
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Slaanesh69

Slaanesh69

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Man, I definitely have not spent any time figuring out Graveyard and have still made a couple of items that came out better than anything I've gotten to drop in the last couple of leagues.

As an eternal scrub, I will say T17s are.......ridiculous. I can easy-peasy run anything in old game PoE (although I still failed the single time I tried Sirus, because that fight is cancer-aids and my nemesis) but the boss fights in a T17 are BOTH a SERIOUS defense and offense check to the point where I know I COULD do them, but as been said, I am not the player with the incentive to farm and gear up to do it.

I watched a video on the various T17 boss mechanics, and the builds they used to showcase the mechanics were in another universe from the power levels I run.

So, essentially, I'm still currently playing, but not really any of the new stuff aside from crafting an item when my corpse storage is full.

Maybe I just don't like change, so I cannot go start another game.
 
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