Pathfinder Online

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Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,773
631
Draegoloth_sl said:
Better to have an earlier pathfinder than a later one... also TLDR stories- I'm a 35$ donator, worth it imo
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Maybe...but why can't they secure any private funding?

I'm curious and i really don't know.. Have there been any mmos that were good that were created from funding from kickstarter?
 
Daidraco

Daidraco

Avatar of War Slayer
10,341
10,773
Honestly, this game seems as if its going to fall flat on its face. The team is small, old and then wants to have huge aspirations. Theyre going after a subscription model that even Blizzard has stated is a dying model. Theyre barely going to meet their kickstarter funding. Now theyre going to include dual platform support? I mean, holy shit. Ill chime in and say the ideas sound great, but this game being any meaningful addition to the genre is a pipe dream.
 
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Dudelander_sl

shitlord
7
0
Daidraco_sl said:
Honestly, this game seems as if its going to fall flat on its face. The team is small, old and then wants to have huge aspirations. Theyre going after a subscription model that even Blizzard has stated is a dying model. Theyre barely going to meet their kickstarter funding. Now theyre going to include dual platform support? I mean, holy shit. Ill chime in and say the ideas sound great, but this game being any meaningful addition to the genre is a pipe dream.
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I don't think what they're trying to do it that far reaching. If they were going for a wow-styled game with quests, raids, and instances then I would agree with you. But it sounds like they're basically shooting for an EVE-style economy sim. A content lite, player driven MMO seems like a reasonable goal for a Kickstarter project. I also disagree that the subscription model is dead. For WoW / GW2 style MMOs this might be the case, as they need to provide a steady stream of content to keep their player base interested, and they might as well sell it to their customers directly. But for "sandbox" MMOs, and long as their backend infrastructure is scalable, they should be able to host their game in the cloud. Since they don't need to generate a ton of content to sell, they can make a steady profit without having to invest a ton of development time. They might be able to make a steady profit with less than 10,000 subscribers.

And dual platform support is not hard to achieve because they're going with the Unity game engine, which officially supports Windows, OS X, and even Android / iOS. So as long as they don't use any awful hacks to implement some pointless feature they should be okay. In this day in age, there really isn't muh excuse for not offering multi-platform support - especially considering the growth of the tablet market. The only thing you lose is being able to use the bleeding edge DirectX features, and I think it's fair to say that this game is not going to sell itself based on its superior graphics. As long as you make good architectural decisions, you basically get a cheap 5% bump in revenue. Even very small market MMOs like DDO and LoTRO are working on mac clients.

That being said, it seems like 1 million is a pretty lofty goal. I think part of the problem is that the donation levels that let you get automatic beta access are first come, first serve. So the first 1000 people get in the first month, while the last 1000 will probably get in only slightly before launch - basically eliminating any incentive for late comers to donate at the higher levels.
 
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Oort_sl

shitlord
36
0
Looks like with 925k already pledged and 8 hours to go, the second Kickstarter may actually reach the goal of 1mil. I have high hopes for this game (participated in both Kickstarters), but have serious concerns about the developer's ability to sustain financially long term. Also, the concepts look great on paper, but can Goblinworks deliver? Let's hope for some VC backing soon.
 
Mughal

Mughal

Bronze Knight of the Realm
279
39
Convo_sl said:
It's their second kickstarter... Lol kind of greedy IMO.
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They failed to find financing after the first KS so had to do another to keep the lights open and show that there is momentum. But since they are not financially streetwise it won't change. Right now not a single pub will fund an MMO.
 
arallu

arallu

Golden Knight of the Realm
536
47
7 hours and just about 94%. I think they shot themselves in the foot with the 'daily deals' thing and the gated levels, even though their $100 level hasnt even hit the 4000 count for month 2..
I pledged for the tech demo, but honestly the signed book was a great value, and was taking a wait and see on this.
 
arallu

arallu

Golden Knight of the Realm
536
47
Oh, and they did say on the video and the kickstarter page that they got investors and this kickstarter was to speed up the development time:

Is the whole budget coming from this Kickstarter?

No. Most of the budget is being provided by our initial investors, but the money we're raising on Kickstarter is the difference between a 4 year development plan and a much faster, much larger plan
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Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,773
631
Well.. let's see how it goes. Hopefully they will have enough to complete the game without starting another kickstarter lol
 
Mughal

Mughal

Bronze Knight of the Realm
279
39
arallu_sl said:
Oh, and they did say on the video and the kickstarter page that they got investors and this kickstarter was to speed up the development time:
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They have not raised funding to make an MMO. They knocked a lot of doors and they were sent packing. Right now that money covers for a few more months of wages.

I would welcome a Pathfinder MMO, just I know the source of money in the industry and there is little chance it can be made without compromises.
 
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Dashiva_sl

shitlord
50
0
Mughal_sl said:
They have not raised funding to make an MMO. They knocked a lot of doors and they were sent packing. Right now that money covers for a few more months of wages.

I would welcome a Pathfinder MMO, just I know the source of money in the industry and there is little chance it can be made without compromises.
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So how does the kickstarter work then, I was under the impression that once a project got funded via kickstarter they had to release a project, is that not the case?
 
Mughal

Mughal

Bronze Knight of the Realm
279
39
Dashiva_sl said:
So how does the kickstarter work then, I was under the impression that once a project got funded via kickstarter they had to release a project, is that not the case?
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To release an MMO you need dev + infrastructure + live team, not counting marketing and distribution expenses. Hard to do it under $20m if you want a commercial product. Hard to do it under $100m if you want to seriously compete in this market. Still peanut compared to the money wasted in Hollywood. Pathfinder used the 1st MMO as a springboard to go and find investors for the 'big' MMO and to show that there was real demand and there were early adopters ready to throw money at them.

What happened is that big publishers have found that they have a better return on their investment by either doing projects in house or smaller games (PC/mobile/tablet/social) so that no one is willing to allocate that much money on an unproven IP. By unproven is that there is a track record of non-game IP doing terribly in MMOs (Star Wars, Warhammer), so that either you create something new, you do a sandbox (a la Minecraft) or use an existing game IP (like World of Warcraft with Warcraft 3). In absence of these the onus of proof is against you. Hence the multiple kickstarters.

In regard to your initial question, they phrase their KS campaigns carefully. The first one was about a demo, this one I think is about a module. But does not matter because that;s not the way you build a successful MMO. They are costly beasts for a reason.

The only thing we can do is to take out the cc and blow $15 on KS on this and hope enough people do the same. This MMO might fail but it might inspire others to try.
 
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LennyLenard_sl

shitlord
195
1
Dashiva_sl said:
So how does the kickstarter work then, I was under the impression that once a project got funded via kickstarter they had to release a project, is that not the case?
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From theKickstart FAQ
We allow creative projects in the worlds of Art, Comics, Dance, Design, Fashion, Film, Food, Games, Music, Photography, Publishing, Technology, and Theater.

Everything on Kickstarter must be a project. A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it.

As Mughal has already mentioned, they're funding "a module" whatever that means. Something can be on kickstarter as long as they can make it have a clearly definable goal, and it doesn't violate the other requirements. So we may very well see them asking for more money in 6 months to fund another module.

So a shady group could, in theory, string people along across multiple KS projects for a while without ever actually delivering an actual usable/consumable product.

Not saying or implying that's what they're doing btw. I hope it works out for them. Unity3D could use the exposure with a commercial MMO.
 
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Dudelander_sl

shitlord
7
0
They have a simple demo of the engine they'll be using. You can find ithereif you're interested. There's not a lot there in terms of graphics, but I doubt people who are interested in this PO care that much. I was kind of impressed with the size and detail of the dungeon given that it's only a tech demo.
 
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gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
I know it's a simple prototype, but the dungeon didn't inspire a lot of confidence. It's yet another tunnel going from point A to point B with no alternate routes. Some of the ideas are nice in theory, but I just can't see this amounting to much (assuming it releases at all).
 
Z

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
Ryan Dancey posted:

I've mentioned before that there's a misconception that "sandbox" means "unlimited freedom". Sandbox means that you build with the tools we provide, and you often astonish us with the unexpected uses to which you put those tools.

But that's the "sand". The other word in that term is "box". The box is the envelope we establish that defines the game and how it is to be played. One of those definitions is "don't be a jerk". Jerkiness is defined along one (of many) axis as killing without meaning.

As we've said many times before, dealing with disruptive greifing requires a multi-layered approach; there is no silver bullet. Therefore, there are in-game and out-of-game processes that are designed to limit such behavior, and responses that scale from warnings to substantial mechanical penalties as well.

We have also been clear that there are lots of forms of PvP that we consider inherently good for the game and are not jerkiness. Territorial warfare and banditry are two that we've been very up-front about. Banditry implies Bounty Hunting, and we've been up front about that as well.

There are forms of PvP that we consider inherently unacceptable behavior. If you are engaged in killing characters without an in-game rationale, just "for the lulz", that's not ok.

There are lots of gray areas in the Venn Diagram of "ok" and "jerkiness" when it comes to PvP, which is why we have a multi-layered, multi-dimensional, escalating approach to dealing with the problem. You will have meaningful choices to make about semi-jerky behavior, because engaging in those behaviors will have some, but not total, often not permanent negative consequences. You will have to decide if the fun you get from doing something that is "semi-jerky" is worth the price you'll pay in mechanical and social penalties.

These parts of the "box" mean that there are things you can do that we'll support, and things you can do that we won't, and things that if you do them, you'll face increasingly stiff penalties to the point where we hope you'll quit and go play some other game. You will not have unrestricted freedom to do whatever you wish, whenever you wish, to whomever you wish, for any reason.

This is Pathfinder Online not Lord of the Flies Online.

RyanD
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Thoughts about Paladins

This is just me, Ryan, writing, not me Ryan the CEO of Goblinworks, and not Ryan giving directions to his game designers. So don't take any of this as anything but one persons' opinion.

Paladins are not bounty hunters. They are not sheriffs. They are not enforcers of the law. They are not Delta Force commandos.

Paladins are heroic adventurers who use Good and Law to fight evil and chaos as expressed primarily by outsiders, undead, monstrous creatures, aberrations and magical beasts, placing themselves into extremely dangerous situations and using the powers gifted to them by their patron deities to confront and vanquish elemental evil and chaos.

Paladins should not be engaged in killing other characters except in defense of Lawful Good Settlements. They should not be taking revenge for harm caused to other characters by 3rd parties.

Paladins should be standing in ancient barrows fighting wights, or issuing challenges to ogres who are terrorizing the Common Folk, or hunting and killing demonic creatures that have infiltrated civilization.

Paladins should serve as an example to others of the power and the glory that comes from living a righteous life, adhering to a rigorous code of honor, and placing oneself - one's very soul - at risk to protect the weak, defend the Realm, and upholding the tenants of the Faith.

RyanD
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Ryan Dancey posted:

There is no good reason to play a chaotic evil character except if you like being other people's content.

I think the strongest opposition that Lawful Good Settlements will face will come from Lawful Evil Settlements.

I think that many players will find that their choices often funnel them towards Chaotic Good social structures, thus those communities will often be the largest, most diverse, and most active.

I see most of the "neutral" positions on the alignment grid as either a delicate balancing point that you have to work hard to maintain so that you can be a bridge between other, larger social structures, or a temporary waypoint as your character's actions pull them towards one of the four corners.

RyanD
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Then things break down into Dancy arguing about alignment interpretations and implementations with random posters.
 
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