Plane Crashes at San Francisco Airport

OneofOne

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Many of our servicemen and women are not heroes, and it bugs me that by simply signing up, people make them out to be. Like any other large group of people, the military contains rapists, murderers, and run of the mill gangbangers. Are they heroes too?
 

Tanoomba

ジョーディーすれいやー
<Banned>
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So they are all blaming this noob pilot with 43 hours, blah, blah... But wait a second, should there not be a co-pilot there responsible for this noob? WTF? Its not like this dude went up there alone. He was in training.
Well he had years and years of experience in other aircraft, and apparently pilots are asked to fly new aircraft pretty regularly. He did have a co-pilot, but they're suggesting there may have been hesitation to critique his flying because of embarrassment or awkwardness or something. I don't remember the specific words but CNN said something to that effect.
 

Alex

Still a Music Elitist
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The dude that sells potato chips at the commissary is certainly a hero.
 

Szlia

Member
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1,328
So they are all blaming this noob pilot with 43 hours, blah, blah... But wait a second, should there not be a co-pilot there responsible for this noob? WTF? Its not like this dude went up there alone. He was in training.
Tele-training with 'Matthew' from New Delhi perhaps?
 

Tanoomba

ジョーディーすれいやー
<Banned>
10,170
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Many of our servicemen and women are not heroes, and it bugs me that by simply signing up, people make them out to be. Like any other large group of people, the military contains rapists, murderers, and run of the mill gangbangers. Are they heroes too?
You don't get to be a hero based on what group you're a part of, you're a hero based on your individual actions. A firefighter isn't a hero by default, but after he climbs out of a burning building coughing up smoke with an old lady slung over his shoulder, yeah, he's a hero.

The military is a bit more tricky. Part of the problem is that the institution attracts people who are out for blood. Should a psychopath be considered a hero for gleefully slaughtering his enemies from the relative safety of a helicopter? Unfortunately, the promise of being recognized as a hero is part of the appeal of joining the military in the first place. Personally, I'm less inclined to consider someone a hero for killing than I am for saving a life, but it isn't a black/white issue.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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Many of our servicemen and women are not heroes, and it bugs me that by simply signing up, people make them out to be. Like any other large group of people, the military contains rapists, murderers, and run of the mill gangbangers. Are they heroes too?
you can still be a hero while being an unsavory character. One doesnt negate the other
 

OneofOne

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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you can still be a hero while being an unsavory character. One doesnt negate the other
The correct response is you can perform heroic acts without being a hero. The military contains heroes, but not everyone in it is a hero. Same with firefighters, cops, paramedics, and any other "rescue" organization.
 

BoldW

Molten Core Raider
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You don't get to be a hero based on what group you're a part of, you're a hero based on your individual actions. A firefighter isn't a hero by default, but after he climbs out of a burning building coughing up smoke with an old lady slung over his shoulder, yeah, he's a hero.
Some might say that being willing to run into a burning building at the possible cost of your life is a heroic action, or that giving up years of your life to protect your country's interests is heroic. I suppose the very definition of what one considers heroic changes from person to person. A comic book Villain will have a different view of Heroic than the "Hero".

That being said, I understand (I think) what you're getting at, and terms such as that are used was too often in the media.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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Yes, I couldnt think of the proper term. Though maybe it should say you can be a hero and you can be a role model, but you cant always be both.
 

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Im waiting for someone to claim that none of our military are heroes,because they get paid.
As someone who was not only in the military, but in what lots of people call an "elite" community, I'm to go ahead and say that you can't make blanket statements about people being heroes based on their job description. Heroes are people who act out of selflessness during times of distress. Being in a community doesn't automatically dictate how you will act.

Also, as far as this pilot nonsense goes, I think the media is being very misleading. They keep mentioning how he had 43 hours or whatever and had never landed at SFO. But the dude had 10,000 hours and most definitely HAD landed there before. Just because it's a new airframe doesn't mean you forget everything you know.
 

Eomer

Trakanon Raider
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So they are all blaming this noob pilot with 43 hours, blah, blah... But wait a second, should there not be a co-pilot there responsible for this noob? WTF? Its not like this dude went up there alone. He was in training.
As with all accidents like this, it'll come down to several humans doing a mind-bottlingly large number of stupid things over a sustained period to end up in this situation. The co-pilot had several thousand hours on the plane, so he was supposed to be watching over things. And regardless of the specific plane type, most commercial airliners have almost identical approach speeds and angles. The plane was coming in way the fuck too slow, and way the fuck too steep. Maybe the plane had different instrumentation that the inexperienced pilot was having trouble with, but angle/rate of descent and airspeed are not exactly rocket science.
 

iannis

Musty Nester
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I don't know that you can.
I think maybe you can. You may not agree with this example, but it'll give you an idea of what I mean.

You take good old Rudy Jew-liani on Sept 11 and the 2 weeks following. The way he managed to rise to his station (i.e. do his fucking job), co-ordinate efforts, and restore public confidence was IMHO (and plenty will disagree) a heroic effort. Not all men in his position would have risen to the station, or the situation. Shit could have been way, way worse. No riots broke out, no looting, no breakdown of civil authority -- which could have happened.

Is good old Rudy a hero? God no. But his actions for those weeks I would class as heroic in nature.

It's not specific to him. There are other examples that could be used of an otherwise non-heroic man doing heroic things. And then there are examples of straight up heroic men, like take Dr. King and the lawyers which supported him.