Political Affiliation

Numbers_sl · Feb 23, 2013

Why is Obama a joke Kreugen?

Haast · Feb 23, 2013

Karloff_sl said:
If you mean abortion as wedge issue sure, but to say its not big business is being naive. Both the pro-choice and pro-life lobbies are big money. Everyone complains about wedge issues but for a lot of folks those are the only issues they feel will actually impact their lives.

To clarify, I was saying that corporations and the very rich don't care which way things go in the abortion debate; it doesn't affect them directly. Fiscal and regulatory policies are what they care about and spend money to influence.

I'm sure the lobbies for both sides of the abortion issue have plenty of money. Average people definitely care about the outcome and it is a very divisive issue.

Kreugen · Feb 23, 2013

Magic Numbers_sl said:
Why is Obama a joke Kreugen?

I actually edited out that line but, mostly his failure to deliver on practically anything he ever said he would do. His only value is keeping the fucking nutjobs the Republicans have put up as candidates out of office.

chaos · Feb 23, 2013

Aldarion_sl said:
LOL -- the ideologies of the two parties you mention are diametrically opposed on nearly every substantive issue.

Also a hearty LMFAO at the people declaring the democratic party centrist and thus identifying themselves as centrist rather than democrat. Does this deception actually work on themselves? Cause you can be damn sure it doesnt work on anyone outside their fantasy worlds.

The Democratic Party in 2013 is not centrist, or even liberal, but rather Leftist.

I wish we had a real leftist party just so I could see your salty fuckin tears. Instead we have a right wing and a centrist party.

B_Mizzle · Feb 23, 2013

chaos_sl said:
I wish we had a real leftist party just so I could see your salty fuckin tears. Instead we have a right wing and a centrist party.

Gun control and socialized healthcare is not centrist.

Eomer · Feb 23, 2013

B_Mizzle_sl said:
Gun control and socialized healthcare is not centrist.

In every other developed country on the planet, they are.

Agraza · Feb 23, 2013

What defines the center? Socialized healthcare is now normal in western culture.

Karloff_sl · Feb 23, 2013

Eomer_sl said:
In every other developed country on the planet, they are.

Just let him live in the bubble it's not like anything we say sinks in. If Rush or Fox doesn't say it's true we'll....

Sebudai · Feb 23, 2013

Our healthcare system was literally designed by conservatives.

Agraza · Feb 24, 2013

Quotes are fun. Bold is mine.

Just a few years ago, this approach was not at all controversial among conservatives. The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, first proposed an individual mandate in 1989(THE FUCKING 80s MAN wtf?!). Its authors recognized that "each household has the obligation, to the extent it is able, to avoid placing demands on society by protecting itself."(mandate = personal responsibility and no tax increase, these guys are clever)

Conservative economists also proposed a mandate as part of a plan that "supports and makes use of competitive markets" and "avoids relying on the public tax or expenditure systems whenever possible." In 1993 Sen. John Chafee (R-RI)-along with 18 Republican co-sponsors-introduced legislation that included a mandate as an alternative to the Clinton administration health reform plan." And in 2005 the George W. Bush administration agreed to waive certain Medicaid rules to give Massachusetts the funding and flexibility to operate Romneycare. When the waiver was up for renewal in 2008, President Bush again signed off on the policy.

http://www.americanprogressaction.or...sus-obamacare/

Aldarion · Feb 24, 2013

Agraza_sl said:
What defines the center? [/ATTACH]

Asking questions is the beginning of wisdom.

What defines the center? Its not a terribly hard question but one your far-left compatriots have failed to ask. The answer is this. Take the relevant political parties (hint: there are two) and arrange them on a left-right axis. One is farther left, the other is farther right. The party farthest to the left is the left wing party, the party to the right is the right wing party, and "centrist" is the point equidistant between them.

Foreign political ideologies are irrelevant for this discussion. The center isnt defined by taking a global average. The center is the middle point in between the American left and the American right.

By definition, the Democratic party is not the center.

Astral Projection_sl · Feb 24, 2013

B_Mizzle_sl said:
Gun control is not centrist.

To be fairgun control(for example today's laws in the majority of US states) is centrist policy. Completegun banswould be extreme policy. The spectrum would be something like this:

extreme policy: no gun laws, you can own a grenade launcher and automatic weapons, no permits
...
...
centrist policy: you can own semi-automatic weapons, permit and background checks, felons disallowed the privilege
...
...
extreme policy: complete gun ban

Conefed · Feb 24, 2013

Astral Projection_sl said:
To be fairgun control(for example today's laws in the majority of US states) is centrist policy. Completegun banswould be extreme policy. The spectrum would be something like this:

extreme policy: no gun laws, you can own a grenade launcher and automatic weapons, no permits
...
...
centrist policy: you can own semi-automatic weapons, permit and background checks, felons disallowed the privilege
...
...
extreme policy: complete gun ban

This

Draegan_sl · Feb 25, 2013

B_Mizzle_sl said:
Gun control and socialized healthcare is not centrist.

The ACA is nearly an exact replica that was introduced by Bob Dole in the 90s. It was also put together by the Heritage Foundation. All liberal institutions. So you're right at least with half of that.

B_Mizzle · Feb 25, 2013

Astral Projection_sl said:
To be fairgun control(for example today's laws in the majority of US states) is centrist policy. Completegun banswould be extreme policy. The spectrum would be something like this:

extreme policy: no gun laws, you can own a grenade launcher and automatic weapons, no permits
...
...
centrist policy: you can own semi-automatic weapons, permit and background checks, felons disallowed the privilege
...
...
extreme policy: complete gun ban

Yeah what the left is promoting is what you label as extreme policy, complete ban of a certain class of weapons. The right is promoting actually enforcing the existing laws, which you labeled centrist. So using your definitions additional gun control that the left is trying to force on us is not centrist.

Kreugen · Feb 25, 2013

B_Mizzle_sl said:
Yeah what the left is promoting is what you label as extreme policy, complete ban of a certain class of weapons. The right is promoting actually enforcing the existing laws, which you labeled centrist. So using your definitions additional gun control that the left is trying to force on us is not centrist.

Except that's a load of bullshit.

Ban of a certain class of weapons != complete gun ban. Completely pointless in this case, yes, but not really any different than the automatic weapon ban, which he has listed as 'centrist'

And you are trying to say the Republicans embrace the existing laws and that makes them centrist. Riiiiight, they just fucking LOVED the Brady Bill. What an incredible example of bi-partisan unity! No.

shattuck_sl · Feb 25, 2013

Magic Numbers_sl said:
I've always wanted to ask an anarchist what the deal was. In International relations, depending on the lens one uses to explain and predict global events, some people view the world as in a state of anarchy, but I don't think it is the same kind of anarchy that your typical anarchist believes in, which is why I wanted to interrogate someone like you. What's the deal with anarchy?

Anarchy means no government. A more neutral term (because 'anarchy' has been tarnished) is voluntarism, or simply "a stateless society". Interesting that you say that the world is in a state of anarchy, I see where the comparison stems from because each nation exists in a way that it believes best. However, anarchy is about individual-liberty, which can't exist in a democracy, autocracy, or any other taxonomy of governance. In democracy, the majority forces their opinion onto the minority in the form of legislation; in autocracy the minority forces their opinion onto the majority, etc. The only form of society where no one forces their opinion onto anyone else would be anarchy.

Edit: just a quick note on political parties: the reason most anarchists that vote tend to vote libertarian is because it usually has the candidate who wants the least amount of governance. However, most anarchists don't vote at all because they see it as legitimizing the government in the first place. "It is effectively an endorsement of centralized power and a vote of no confidence in localism." There's basically debate among anarchists about whether or not anarchy is more likely to be achieved via an intellectual or political revolution.

Kreugen · Feb 25, 2013

Anarchists are idiots, gotcha.

Haast · Feb 25, 2013

shattuck_sl said:
Anarchy means no government. A more neutral term (because 'anarchy' has been tarnished) is voluntarism, or simply "a stateless society". Interesting that you say that the world is in a state of anarchy, I see where the comparison stems from because each nation exists in a way that it believes best. However, anarchy is about individual-liberty, which can't exist in a democracy, autocracy, or any other taxonomy of governance. In democracy, the majority forces their opinion onto the minority in the form of legislation; in autocracy the minority forces their opinion onto the majority, etc. The only form of society where no one forces their opinion onto anyone else would be anarchy.

Edit: just a quick note on political parties: the reason most anarchists that vote tend to vote libertarian is because it usually has the candidate who wants the least amount of governance. However, most anarchists don't vote at all because they see it as legitimizing the government in the first place. "It is effectively an endorsement of centralized power and a vote of no confidence in localism." There's basically debate among anarchists about whether or not anarchy is more likely to be achieved via an intellectual or political revolution.

Can you explain how this would work in practice? I would love to hear some thoughts on the practical application of a system completely devoid of oversight/penalties.

iannis · Feb 25, 2013

Study the social dynamics of any american preschool for the practical applications of anarchistic thought. It's all fun and games until Jimmy pulls Laura's ponytail or pushes Tony down the slide. Just because he suddenly realizes he can.

Punks not dead. But it sure smells like it.

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