Pools and Spas

Palum

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Does anyone have experience with the newest generation of variable speed pumps from the big manus (Pentair vs Hayward)?

I am immediately turned off by the apparent 'single piece unit' design of the Pentair which apparently makes it impossible to swap out any component of the 'operating' assembly, ie you can't replace the electronic control board which apparently frequently only lasts 2-3 years. That said the Hayward seems to offer no other discernible advantages.
 

LaGSaLoT

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I had a Pentair Intelliflo in my pool back in Phoenix. Saved me a ton on energy in the summer. I set it to cycle once every 12 hours. It has its own timer so its really maintenance free, just set it and forget it. Only popped it open to clean the filter from time to time.
 

Lanx

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A few houses i'm looking at has indoor hot tubs, how annoying is the upkeep on these things?
 

Palum

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A few houses i'm looking at has indoor hot tubs, how annoying is the upkeep on these things?

I have one, it's been used twice (by us). My parents had one built in their house twenty+ years ago, they've used it once. I just don't see them as very useful compared to a good outside model.

It depends on the make/model and parts availability, largely. Mine is a Jacuzzi tub so it's easily repairable/available and the parts are pretty inexpensive at this point, looks like the collars/sleeves/ball mounts and jet nozzles are the most worn pieces. It was recently serviced (before I bought the house) and the pump seems in very good condition, it works just fine. Keep in mind, you generally get a lot less wear on components on an indoor one because you instantly heat the tub with your hot water heater and drain it, unlike an outside one where you need to treat (chlorine/salt) that cause significant degradation of plastics and lubricants.
 

Sludig

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Kinda interested in excavating and making a below ground pool hoa permitting. Fools errands and a money pit like a boat? Was going for maybe 5 to 6ft deep and maybe a short run 6 wife by 12 to 18 long. So can seem very brief lap or just soak. Get the dogs in it. Want to do a tight cover when not in use keep the bugs mostly out.

Wouldn't ask but thread just happened to pop up.
 

Palum

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Kinda interested in excavating and making a below ground pool hoa permitting. Fools errands and a money pit like a boat? Was going for maybe 5 to 6ft deep and maybe a short run 6 wife by 12 to 18 long. So can seem very brief lap or just soak. Get the dogs in it. Want to do a tight cover when not in use keep the bugs mostly out.

Wouldn't ask but thread just happened to pop up.

Have you looked at the costs or gotten quotes in your area? Installation will vary wildly depending on type of digging and if they have to reroute utilities, how far to run electrical, etc. etc. etc.

I'll say this, I love my pool - but I live in the desert, it's basically 6-7 month season without a heater. In most places in the country, it's not that usable - this means either you'll use it a lot more tenaciously during the hottest times of the summer and have tons of parties or never at all. It also depends on what else you have in your back yard and if you invite people over. If you have a really developed outdoor area with a kitchen/shade/landscaping/etc. you'll probably use it a bit more. If your yard is a shithole and you are expecting to go out around the corner into the dirt area and go into the pool... well, I'm not so sure.

From a cost perspective, they're really not THAT expensive to maintain properly but refurbishment will cost a lot. Your long term is looking at replacing interior finish (ideally pebble tech type thing, but plaster, tile or vinyl liner in some cases) which is 7-8K every 7-10 years, maintaining the coping and decking (varies based on material) every 2-3 years which is mostly just say touch up coating, etc. and major repairs irregularly depending on damage. You also will go through chemicals and random supplies (really, maybe $50/mo AT MOST if you blow through brushes/poles/cleaner parts/chlorine tabs/chemicals) or 70-150 if you pay other people to do everything for you. Electricity is basically a joke (assuming you don't heat) and have a new variable speed pump for most areas of the country.

Maintenance is going to be skimming (depends largely on wind and nearby flora to shit all over your pool) and emptying skimmer baskets, chemical maintenance (really pretty easy once you nail down the schedule and feel of it), irregular cartridge washing or filter backwash (maybe every 2 months at most if really dirty season/area) and brushing/assisting whatever cleaner solution you have (robots don't do stairs and corners/top of walls/etc. well). If you don't have an auto-fill you will be adding water almost daily during the worst parts of summer.

That's not much for me because I have no nearby shitty trees, wind storms that bring dirt in aren't super common based on the orientation of my lot, chemicals are balanced and my robot does a decent job. For someone in a colder climate with active weather (especially rain which washes in organic matter ie lots of algae), uses it only for 2.5 months and the pool is under 8 mature pine trees, you will hate your life and despise it.

I'll say that from what you describe, I would almost recommend a hot tub (even a swim spa). It isn't as nice if you genuinely like to swim or have a lot of fam/friends over and would legit use a pool a lot, but for just everyday soaking you can't beat an outside hot tub compared to a pool year round.
 

Sludig

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I had not done any research into it. I figured I could save a lot since I know the folk to just basically do the excavation and probably the concrete ourselves. The liner I figured some kind of pour in/paint on thing you coat several layers to get a thick liner could be DIY. Biggest thing I wasn't up on what's needed in terms of pool filter/equipment. Didnt know if basically a jumbo canister filter kind of thing could handle a small pool (Basically built into a hutch at an edge vs trying to figure out something built into the actual foundation like a public pool.

$8k/10 years just on the liner is a little offputting. Into it if I could do it for like 5-8k maybe.

Wife and I and dogs only. We live in a smaller city off a highway rather than in built up area. Colorado is pretty dry and mild winters, we joke we skip spring and fall so might do alright. But most likely is probably more than I'm up for if I get serious about it.

I like swiming but havn't in years just because I generally despite public pools. Love when I'm at a unbusy hotel and I can get some time in.
 

Palum

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I had not done any research into it. I figured I could save a lot since I know the folk to just basically do the excavation and probably the concrete ourselves. The liner I figured some kind of pour in/paint on thing you coat several layers to get a thick liner could be DIY. Biggest thing I wasn't up on what's needed in terms of pool filter/equipment. Didnt know if basically a jumbo canister filter kind of thing could handle a small pool (Basically built into a hutch at an edge vs trying to figure out something built into the actual foundation like a public pool.

$8k/10 years just on the liner is a little offputting. Into it if I could do it for like 5-8k maybe.

Wife and I and dogs only. We live in a smaller city off a highway rather than in built up area. Colorado is pretty dry and mild winters, we joke we skip spring and fall so might do alright. But most likely is probably more than I'm up for if I get serious about it.

I like swiming but havn't in years just because I generally despite public pools. Love when I'm at a unbusy hotel and I can get some time in.

DIY pool sounds like a recipe for disaster. Proper plumbing and supporting the weight of the pool is very important. I mean excavation, whatever... but the rest I wouldn't touch.

As for the liner material, it really depends. I've seen plaster replacement advertised for like 3-4K but that doesn't last and pebbletech for as cheap as 5-6k (small play pool). You can save a lot if you do it in the off season.
 

Xarpolis

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Kinda interested in excavating and making a below ground pool hoa permitting. Fools errands and a money pit like a boat? Was going for maybe 5 to 6ft deep and maybe a short run 6 wife by 12 to 18 long. So can seem very brief lap or just soak. Get the dogs in it. Want to do a tight cover when not in use keep the bugs mostly out.

Wouldn't ask but thread just happened to pop up.
Realize that MOST people don't like deep pools. You're in it to hang out and talk with friends. Get something shallow, like 3.5 feet deep. That's enough for the kids to play and adults to stand. Maybe a deeper section that's 5.5 feet, but even then I wouldn't worry about it. Where I live now, there are two pools. They each have large 3 foot deep shallow sections, and one "deep" 5.5 area. I'm pretty much the only one that ever goes in the deep section (because I'm 6'4), unless someone is trying to swim laps or whatever.

EDIT: Also, if I were going to build a pool from scratch right now, I'd plan on either salt water or fresh water that doesn't use chlorine. UV lighting kills bacteria, I believe. It's the "new" system. Salt water pools are pretty great though. You never need chlorine, and you feel refreshed using them. Plus, the salt content actually causes you to float easier than fresh water. On top of that, salt water doesn't burn your eyes when you open underwater. It's as salty as your tears normally are, so it's all good.
 
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Sludig

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LIke I said would just be us 2. And I'm >6ft so just standing up to my nuts in water is lame. So prefer deep for me. That's neat about saltwater, I wouldnt mind since I also have a 300g saltwater tank I'm always shoulder deep in.

Alas, I think it's probably not too smart from what palum says. Just a hair steep for a ~100k family income maybe if I had gotten my way with a less extravagant house.
 

mkopec

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Ive got an 18ft round that i bought brand new in box from some dude on craigslist for $600. It also included a slightly used hayward pump and sand filter system. Fucking banging deal.

When it came to install, biggest hurdle was the huge slope in my back yard. I had to dig about 3 ft of tough yellow/green clay on one side, reroute sprinklers deal with tree roots, it was horrible. Shit is like concrete to dig through.Took me a few weeks to get a 20ft round, level surface to work with. Other than that, smooth install. Got sand in my brother in laws truck for base and it took about 5 hours to put it all together, install liner, etc. Did it all wrong, but it lasted 5 yrs until this past fall when the liner took a shit.

So just this week i had a dude install a new liner i bought on amazon, he did it for $350. Bang up job, and now that I saw how he did it, i can do it myself next time. Dude was an Iraq war vet, army special forces, good bro to talk to, told me some shit. Also taught me how to properly install liner.

I know, above ground hick pool, but ive got to tell you, that thing was the best purchase to get my kids out of the house in the summer. Plus i like the thing myself, get hot after working outside, jump in, few brews, jump in more. Its the thing that kerps us outside on hot summer days rather than being inside in the ac.

First few years I didnt know shit about chemicals, balance, any of that shit, just used sanitizer every day, once every few weeks do burnout. But someone told me to take water sample to my local pool store, they test the shit for free and tell me what I need, etc. Man what a difference it made when all that shit is perfect. Stabilized alone made a huge impact in the amount of chlorine I need, etc...
 
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Cad

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Realize that MOST people don't like deep pools. You're in it to hang out and talk with friends. Get something shallow, like 3.5 feet deep. That's enough for the kids to play and adults to stand. Maybe a deeper section that's 5.5 feet, but even then I wouldn't worry about it. Where I live now, there are two pools. They each have large 3 foot deep shallow sections, and one "deep" 5.5 area. I'm pretty much the only one that ever goes in the deep section (because I'm 6'4), unless someone is trying to swim laps or whatever.

EDIT: Also, if I were going to build a pool from scratch right now, I'd plan on either salt water or fresh water that doesn't use chlorine. UV lighting kills bacteria, I believe. It's the "new" system. Salt water pools are pretty great though. You never need chlorine, and you feel refreshed using them. Plus, the salt content actually causes you to float easier than fresh water. On top of that, salt water doesn't burn your eyes when you open underwater. It's as salty as your tears normally are, so it's all good.

Wat

I hate those shallow pools. I guess shallow is better for like party games and such, but for swimming/diving those pools are useless.
 

mkopec

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For kids growing up 4-5 feet is perfect. And as an adult i use it to cool off, not to do laps in.
 

Xarpolis

Life's a Dream
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LIke I said would just be us 2. And I'm >6ft so just standing up to my nuts in water is lame. So prefer deep for me. That's neat about saltwater, I wouldnt mind since I also have a 300g saltwater tank I'm always shoulder deep in.

Alas, I think it's probably not too smart from what palum says. Just a hair steep for a ~100k family income maybe if I had gotten my way with a less extravagant house.
I was a little wrong about salt water pools not having chlorine. It does, but only as a result of the salt itself. You aren't adding an additional chemical to the water.
The method by which a salt-chlorine generator works is that it applies a process of electrolysis to the dissolved salt in the water as it passes through a pool's filter system. This electrolysis takes away the 'sodium' part of salt and what is left is chloride, or chlorine.

There are two versions of fresh water pools that don't use chlorine. One is the standard UV light system that uses fresh water, then there's another which actually keeps the chlorine level at the same as drinking water while also using UV lights. It's called "super low" chlorine level or something. I don't know enough about either system. I haven't really researched this stuff very much, but I'd eventually like to own a nice pool with refreshing water that isn't chlorinated. So I'll get to it eventually.
 

Palum

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Wat

I hate those shallow pools. I guess shallow is better for like party games and such, but for swimming/diving those pools are useless.

Yep I have a diving pool and love it.
 

Palum

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LIke I said would just be us 2. And I'm >6ft so just standing up to my nuts in water is lame. So prefer deep for me. That's neat about saltwater, I wouldnt mind since I also have a 300g saltwater tank I'm always shoulder deep in.

Alas, I think it's probably not too smart from what palum says. Just a hair steep for a ~100k family income maybe if I had gotten my way with a less extravagant house.

Just get a cheap hot tub, like a TuffSpa. You can even just take it with you wherever and the basic ones run on 120 (though heat better on 240 obviously). Soak all year, lower maintenance. Won't let you swim swim but they're very relaxing (imo).