Question about US healthcare (coming from a Brit)
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BrutulTM
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Kreugen is spinning pretty hard here. Just keep in mind that he is pushing a political stance and exaggerating for that purpose. US health care has a lot of serious issues, but I live in one of those states that he is referring to and under no circumstances is anyone told "fuck you, go die in a ditch".
Kreugen
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True. You can get care at a hospital, if they think it is serious enough that you don't get triaged until you die of old age, and then you get a bill for it that they know you cannot possibly pay which ruins your credit rating for the next 10 years. But I did cover that elsewhere in the post, after the obvious hyperbole that I clarified. Also, children obviously have less stringent requirements for aid, but I'm not familiar with that.
Burnem Wizfyre
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Yeah no one is actually told that, they aren't uncouth about it and they have no problem letting you die in their hospital bed.
Dyvim
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Last time i checked Qatar has (one of) the best public healthcare systems installed. Dunno what you are getting at.
Kreugen
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And you know, criticizing our health care system (as it exists both before and after Obamacare) doesn't automatically mean you are arguing from a goddamn political stance. Because you'd have be the Michael Jordan of Kool Aid guzzling far ring winger Ted Cruz slurping fuckwits to claim that our old system was doing just fine and didn't need any changes. The only reason I can fathom why anyone would say such a stupid thing is because Obama changed it and therefore the old way must have been perfect. We probably only have a few people here who are actually that goddamn biased and/or dumb, and I'm not even convinced yet that they aren't the world's most dedicated role players. And yes the same goes for anyone who says Obamacare isn't without faults, but those people only exists as strawmen. Just like the supposed liberals who worship Obama as a God and all the other retarded shit that doesn't actually exist.
Kreugen
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Who said anything about per capita sir?Last time i checked Qatar has (one of) the best public healthcare systems installed. Dunno what you are getting at.
fanaskin
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The only reason people resisted healthcare reform for decades previous to obama like under clinton was because they are racist against obama, right?
Kreugen
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Dyvim
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I had the impression, that the constant (financial) pressure applied by the private healthcare companies kept the old system untouched as long as possible (think Reagan's gov installed it back then).
And everyone even thinking about a healthcare reform would be instashout down with: It's Socialism! or oh nooooes the land of the free's sky is falling down due to this commie basterd! -> Behead him now!
That kept the utterly corrupt and unfair system in place for decades w/o any hope of a needed restructure.
And everyone even thinking about a healthcare reform would be instashout down with: It's Socialism! or oh nooooes the land of the free's sky is falling down due to this commie basterd! -> Behead him now!
That kept the utterly corrupt and unfair system in place for decades w/o any hope of a needed restructure.
Kreugen
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In the case of Clinton, it was because his plan would destroy the health insurance industry. He couldn't even get the full support of his own party. In the case of Obama, it was because it came from Obama. Yes, seriously. If they had tried arguing over specifics instead of wasting 40 fucking votes to repeal the whole thing maybe they could have gotten a greater say in what we wound up with. Maybe you could then argue that they had specific gripes about specific flaws and not "deeerp, one term President!"
Maybe things like having the option to buy catastrophic insurance if you want it, or removing the employer mandate could have been on the table. Instead it was "Every single thing about this law is bad because Obama"
You can't say that there are zero good things in Obamacare without being labeled as a biased, partisan nitwit. Just like no one who supports it can say it is without fault. That's just how it is.
BrutulTM
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I honestly have no idea what I want for health care in the US. There is zero chance of single payer or socialized health care because as Kreugen mentioned, it destroys the health insurance industry and whether or not that is a good thing, the health insurance industry has way too much juice in Washington for that to ever happen, even if the congress was 100% Democrat.
Obamacare basically gets insurance for some people on the fringe of medicaid and forces insurance companies to take people with pre-existing conditions. The rest of us get to pay for that in higher premiums and possibly it would be offset somewhat by forcing young, healthy people to buy insurance who can afford it but probably would prefer to take their chances. It's a giveaway to the insurance companies, but on the other hand they should at least have disaster coverage rather than just sticking it to the hospitals (who in turn pass it on to the insurance companies and ultimately the rest of us. I had a neighbor a few years back that got some kind of super bug infection and had to be helicoptered 200 miles to a hospital and ran up $100,000 worth of bills which the hospital just wrote off because he didn't have insurance. He wasn't a rich dude, but I bet he could have afforded some kind of $10k deductible insurance that would have kept the rest of us from having to eat that bill.
What Obamacare doesn't do anything about is the outrageous price of everything related to health care here. I tend to be a free market kind of guy, but when it comes to health care there isn't a market in a lot of cases and the patients don't really have the option to shop around so there is no supply and demand/competition pressure to keep prices under control.
If you make believe that congress might actually pass a single payer or socialized medicine bill and take the insurance companies out of the picture, it seems like it would make the system more efficient, but I don't buy it because it's the government and they are fucking horrible at everything they do. Hearing about the troubles that vets I know have with the VA doesn't make me dream of being a part of that system at all and I think it's pretty well known that Medicare is full of waste, fraud, and abuse that no one really gives a damn about because it's the government.
When it comes down to it, it's a super complicated problem and I just don't know what the right answer is.
Obamacare basically gets insurance for some people on the fringe of medicaid and forces insurance companies to take people with pre-existing conditions. The rest of us get to pay for that in higher premiums and possibly it would be offset somewhat by forcing young, healthy people to buy insurance who can afford it but probably would prefer to take their chances. It's a giveaway to the insurance companies, but on the other hand they should at least have disaster coverage rather than just sticking it to the hospitals (who in turn pass it on to the insurance companies and ultimately the rest of us. I had a neighbor a few years back that got some kind of super bug infection and had to be helicoptered 200 miles to a hospital and ran up $100,000 worth of bills which the hospital just wrote off because he didn't have insurance. He wasn't a rich dude, but I bet he could have afforded some kind of $10k deductible insurance that would have kept the rest of us from having to eat that bill.
What Obamacare doesn't do anything about is the outrageous price of everything related to health care here. I tend to be a free market kind of guy, but when it comes to health care there isn't a market in a lot of cases and the patients don't really have the option to shop around so there is no supply and demand/competition pressure to keep prices under control.
If you make believe that congress might actually pass a single payer or socialized medicine bill and take the insurance companies out of the picture, it seems like it would make the system more efficient, but I don't buy it because it's the government and they are fucking horrible at everything they do. Hearing about the troubles that vets I know have with the VA doesn't make me dream of being a part of that system at all and I think it's pretty well known that Medicare is full of waste, fraud, and abuse that no one really gives a damn about because it's the government.
When it comes down to it, it's a super complicated problem and I just don't know what the right answer is.
Kirun
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The Scandinavian countries have it pretty well figured out. It won't work in the US, because...reasons.
BrutulTM
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Oh I see, very simple. Go ahead and implement campaign finance reform as your first step and maybe you will have a chance.
fanaskin
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TrollfaceDeux
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