Retirement bullshit

Burren · Aug 11, 2016

4% of your income and 2% match isn't going to get you any measurable retirement, even combined with SS. You really need to do something on your own and you really should look at non-qualified assets. 401ks, IRAs, etc. are good for the Gov't, not the average consumer. The money you save (lol) on taxes now with those contributions is raped from you when you access the money down the road.

I'll refrain from adding anything more because in the past, folks generally don't want to hear anything like this on the board. But, you're more than welcome to PM with questions.

Jalynfane · Aug 11, 2016

Worked in the same place for 20 years after school, IRA tanked when the house bubble burst, value dropped 95%. Started a stock portfolio, manager embezzled all of it.

Can't wait to turn 75 and still have to work.

Blazin · Aug 11, 2016

Jalynfane said:
Worked in the same place for 20 years after school, IRA tanked when the house bubble burst, value dropped 95%. Started a stock portfolio, manager embezzled all of it.

Can't wait to turn 75 and still have to work.

that really sucks man, what was your IRA invested in?

mkopec · Aug 11, 2016

Jalynfane said:
Worked in the same place for 20 years after school, IRA tanked when the house bubble burst, value dropped 95%. Started a stock portfolio, manager embezzled all of it.

Can't wait to turn 75 and still have to work.

Thats what im saying man, this entire shift from retirement benefits to 401K is the worst fucking thing that ever happened. And were going to be the first generation to taste that fucking loss. At least SS might still be there for our generation.

Shit, even the cushy jobs of today like GM Ford and Chrysler engineering and design retirement is nothing but a shadow of its former self if youre a full time employee that hired after Y2K. Same for the Auto workers. And im sure this shit is happening nationwide.

Jalynfane · Aug 11, 2016

I remember it being fairly aggressive stuff. Not a finance person then or now. The only thing I know now is that the whole thing is a big racket and it might just be better to "keep it in the mattress"

Mist · Aug 11, 2016

Burren said:
4% of your income and 2% match isn't going to get you any measurable retirement, even combined with SS. You really need to do something on your own and you really should look at non-qualified assets.

Woo, back to magic cards it is, then.

Jalynfane · Aug 11, 2016

No doubt, they had (and do) have a better return for me than anything else.

Blazin · Aug 11, 2016

I know investing can be really frustrating at time and it's full of land minds but I'd recommend to people not to give up on it, and if your risk tolerance is low there is nothing wrong with being conservative. There is no one right answer for everyone. I have been saving since I was a teenager and it's changed my life, but the benefit took decades to snowball.

Gravel · Aug 11, 2016

Jalynfane said:
Worked in the same place for 20 years after school, IRA tanked when the house bubble burst, value dropped 95%. Started a stock portfolio, manager embezzled all of it.

Can't wait to turn 75 and still have to work.

This should never happen.

The thing with the crash that was retarded is so many people said they "lost" money. You don't lose anything unless you sell. You still have the exact same number of shares, they're just worth less (and you did say the "value" dropped; although I have no idea how it went down 95% when the market drop was about 35%).

Even retirees shouldn't have been too bad off as long as they didn't decide to liquidate their portfolio; unless they retired in 2000-2002 (in which case they got hit with a massive drop, followed by a good run up and another massive drop).

Jalynfane · Aug 11, 2016

It was closer to 80/85 is %, I'm still bitter. It was 101k after the time working and matching, then was 16k when all the dust settled (that's ok because they are still the same # of shares amirite). I guess I am one of those retards that sees that as a "loss". I could start over I suppose, if I had a job that matched, and then just hope it builds back up to a decent amount before something else in the economy goes bad and I "don't lose" the money again.

Mizake · Aug 11, 2016

Jalynfane said:
It was closer to 80/85 is %, I'm still bitter. It was 101k after the time working and matching, then was 16k when all the dust settled (that's ok because they are still the same # of shares amirite). I guess I am one of those retards that sees that as a "loss". I could start over I suppose, if I had a job that matched, and then just hope it builds back up to a decent amount before something else in the economy goes bad and I "don't lose" the money again.

What's it at now though? Or did you sell?

I remember when the market crashed in 2008 I lost about 70% of the value of my portfolio. Grim times. But I never sold a single share and today those same shares are worth more than they were in 2008.....so in other words I didn't lose a dime because I never sold. I find it hard to believe your stocks continue to be undervalued, the entire market has been up in years.

On a separate note, how did your manager embezzle your stock portfolio? I kind of have the same fears in one of my investments.....I have a manager who invests a Raymond James account for me, he does well but I just don't know if someday he can't just up and walk away with my money. For that reason I haven't put any more money it it for years, even though his averaged ROI has been over 10% for me. Meanwhile, my E-trade account I personally run does about 8%, not as good but still I'm the only one that can access it so it feels safer. I know I'm being somewhat paranoid but your story basically validates some of my fears.

Kedwyn · Aug 11, 2016

Yeah the move from Defined Benefit plans to 401Ks will end up biting many 50 and younger in the ass. Especially if the market doesn't continue to repeat past performance which is very likely given slow growth all over. Good news is inflation is also very low. Just with stocks being at record highs, relative few really growing companies and overall slow growth all over it is hard to see the returns of the past continuing. If anything we are pretty over bought already.

Social security should be there, assuming we elect people that have the balls to fix it. Raising the cap and a small hike for employers and employees can fix through 2100 or so. Many people are going to rely only on social security and whatever meager savings they manage to put together. The program has to survive and perhaps be expanded with more and more lower paying jobs being the norm.

Jalynfane · Aug 11, 2016

Timing of the market crash was a bit before the same time I shattered my leg, landlord sold the house we rented and partner's mom died. It was a clusterfuck. Decided to cash out the remainder and buy a house at the bottom of the real estate pricing for the area, got a nice place. Now it is "worth" almost 3x the price we paid for it, so that's ok I guess. We would have never bought a house if that whole scenario had not manifested.

Tinycoffin · Aug 12, 2016

Number 1 rule of 401k/investing is you cant get time back. I'm not saying 401K is best for you but its an easy way to invest / save almost every 401k has a money market option you can take advantage of. If you go that route it makes your employee addition basically free money. Nothing says you need to leave it there, with fidelity you can roll it over to a roth or normal 401k and open your investment options.

Jysin · Aug 12, 2016

I got out of the Navy at 24 and got a cushy contracting job. Been doing it ever since. The smartest move I ever made was to max out my 401k contributions. I figured it was money I never had up until that point, so I never considered it as a loss out of my paycheck. We get some new hires, some who are in their 30s who have never saved a dime in 401k. It astounds me. When you ask the hard hitting questions about what their plans for retirement are, it is usually a mix of "deer in the headlights" look or kicking the proverbial can down the road and deal with it later.

I too think we are going to have an entire post-boomer generation who are going to have jack squat for retirement saved up. I foresee a coming crisis that no one seems to be talking about. Who knows what will happen in another ~20-25 years come retirement age for my generation.

Nester · Aug 16, 2016

Add the fact that we are living longer so you are going to need more money to pay for those extra years...

Its crazy to me that some people dont take advantage of the employer matching,. its free money..

Alex · Aug 17, 2016

I work for a Norwegian company and the only downside of that is the shitty retirement. Norway has this uppity "why doesn't your government take care of that for you" attitude and all we get is fucking $2,000 matched per year.

Gravel · Aug 17, 2016

Jysin said:
I got out of the Navy at 24 and got a cushy contracting job. Been doing it ever since. The smartest move I ever made was to max out my 401k contributions. I figured it was money I never had up until that point, so I never considered it as a loss out of my paycheck. We get some new hires, some who are in their 30s who have never saved a dime in 401k. It astounds me. When you ask the hard hitting questions about what their plans for retirement are, it is usually a mix of "deer in the headlights" look or kicking the proverbial can down the road and deal with it later.

I too think we are going to have an entire post-boomer generation who are going to have jack squat for retirement saved up. I foresee a coming crisis that no one seems to be talking about. Who knows what will happen in another ~20-25 years come retirement age for my generation.

It's people in their 50's too. People don't like to save; they want to "enjoy what they have now."

I worry about the same thing, though. My guess is that it'll cause another housing crash. The only reason for that though is because that's basically the only place most people nearing retirement have any net worth. But current housing prices are propped up for the Boomers and older Gen X'ers, and Millenials can't really afford them. So the only way to get cash out will be to sell for much lower than what housing is priced at now.

I'm not really sure about equities, but I don't really see them losing value (expect maybe as a side effect of everything else).

A big problem that I don't think I've ever seen anyone talk about is the caps on COLA adjustments to Social Security. This is actually something I didn't know about until recently, but it's incredibly stupid. Basically, the increases are "matched" to CPI-W, but don't match it exactly. And they're also capped (I think to 3%?). So every single year, the Social Security payouts lose a little bit to inflation. By the time most of us draw it, it'll likely have lost so much that it's worth a fraction of what it is now.

Daelos · Aug 17, 2016

Alex said:
I work for a Norwegian company and the only downside of that is the shitty retirement. Norway has this uppity "why doesn't your government take care of that for you" attitude and all we get is fucking $2,000 matched per year.

Which one?

Unidin · Aug 21, 2016

Gravel said:
It's people in their 50's too. People don't like to save; they want to "enjoy what they have now."

I worry about the same thing, though. My guess is that it'll cause another housing crash. The only reason for that though is because that's basically the only place most people nearing retirement have any net worth. But current housing prices are propped up for the Boomers and older Gen X'ers, and Millenials can't really afford them. So the only way to get cash out will be to sell for much lower than what housing is priced at now.

I'm not really sure about equities, but I don't really see them losing value (expect maybe as a side effect of everything else).

A big problem that I don't think I've ever seen anyone talk about is the caps on COLA adjustments to Social Security. This is actually something I didn't know about until recently, but it's incredibly stupid. Basically, the increases are "matched" to CPI-W, but don't match it exactly. And they're also capped (I think to 3%?). So every single year, the Social Security payouts lose a little bit to inflation. By the time most of us draw it, it'll likely have lost so much that it's worth a fraction of what it is now.

The bigger issue for seniors is that the CPI that it's matched to doesn't match the spending increases that they are seeing. It's all well and good that overall inflation is low, but if healthcare and food are what's going up, then it's going to affect seniors the hardest as that's a big percentage of spending.

As for your investment manager stealing your account, that's what SIPC coverage is for. It doesn't help if the market goes down, but it does help if your investment guy just straight up steals your equities. The catch is it only goes up to $500k.

Retirement bullshit

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