Science!! Fucking magnets, how do they work?

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The Ancient_sl

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Ambiturner_sl said:
Because the one on the right is being "measured " first. Once one part of a particle is measured, the other part collapses as well
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I'm a super laymen when it comes to this, but if you are "measuring" the right one first aren't you looking at a different portion of the waveform than the one on the left?


I don't know, it seems like the act of detecting is different than the act of "measuring" where detecting gives you data but doesn't collapse the wave function until it's measured? Seems very strange to me.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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The Ancient_sl said:
I'm a super laymen when it comes to this, but if you are "measuring" the right one first aren't you looking at a different portion of the waveform than the one on the left?


I don't know, it seems like the act of detecting is different than the act of "measuring" where detecting gives you data but doesn't collapse the wave function until it's measured? Seems very strange to me.
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Anything that can determine if its a wave or a particle is considered a measurement. Since the placement of the cable relative to the lens determines if its a wave or a particle, that's where it collapses and therefore so does the entangled photon. The one on the right is going through 6 miles of cable before going through the lens so that's after the one on the left.

Your thought that it's really strange is 100% accurate
 
T

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
7,386
16
Well your explanation and the image don't match. If you are taking the measurement on the right first, hasn't the "entangled" photon already passed through the detector on the left. Are you measuring a more recent photon on the left?
 
Denaut

Denaut

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The Ancient_sl said:
Well your explanation and the image don't match. If you are taking the measurement on the right first, hasn't the "entangled" photon already passed through the detector on the left. Are you measuring a more recent photon on the left?
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I am pretty sure what is happening is that you can determine whether the 1st photon is a wave or a particle by collpasing the second one way or the other AFTER you've already measured the first one. The people running the experiment are affecting the "past" in the "future".
 
khorum

khorum

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That experiment was basically just an implementation of John Wheeler's thought experiment from way back in 1978 called theWheeler Delayed Choice experiment. They successfully confirmed the retrocausal weirdness that quantum entanglement has predicted.

But last month---actually it was updated as of today June 3, 2015---an Australian team successfully performed the wheeler experiment ON A SINGLE ATOMWITH MASS. Previous experiments had limitations with multiple atoms because of the technology but the Australian team was able to do a clean delayed choice experiment with helium and published their study in the journal Nature:

Science_sl said:
Reality doesn't exist until we measure it, quantum experiment confirms

Known as John Wheeler's delayed-choice thought experiment, the experiment was first proposed back in 1978 using light beams bounced by mirrors, but back then, the technology needed was pretty much impossible. Now, almost 40 years later, the Australian team has managed to recreate the experiment using helium atoms scattered by laser light.

"It proves that measurement is everything. At the quantum level, reality does not exist if you are not looking at it," lead researcher and physicist Andrew Truscott said in a press release.


"Quantum physics predictions about interference seem odd enough when applied to light, which seems more like a wave, but to have done the experiment with atoms, which are complicated things that have mass and interact with electric fields and so on, adds to the weirdness," said Roman Khakimov, a PhD student who worked on the experiment.
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The actual Journal Nature paper was evenupdated and made available here.
 
BrotherWu

BrotherWu

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Is weirdness of QM greater than that of Relativity when it was verified? I ask because, although it was obviously quite a shift in understanding, it doesn't seem to have had the wtf factor on the physicists of the time. Maybe just because it is mostly just taken for granted almost a century later?
 
pharmakos

pharmakos

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"It proves that measurement is everything. At the quantum level, reality does not exist if you are not looking at it," lead researcher and physicist Andrew Truscott said in a press release.
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jives really well with simulation theory (the idea that the universe is a computer). why bother wasting computing resources on calculating the positions of every individual particle if none of the consciousnesses in the simulation are actually looking at 'em?
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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The Ancient_sl said:
Well your explanation and the image don't match. If you are taking the measurement on the right first, hasn't the "entangled" photon already passed through the detector on the left.
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Yes, which is the point of the experiment. The right photon was made to be a particle or wave based on an event that hadn't happened yet.
 
iannis

iannis

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I'm not sure if "is not strictly quantified" and "does not exist" are really the same thing.

Heading into some natural philosophy solopistic head up your own butt territory with that one. I don't mind shit getting weird. But I do think that might be exactly the wrong way to think about things.
 
khorum

khorum

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Yeah, I mentioned Bostrom's simulation argument before and I bet he definitely gets a fist bump out of that.

But just like the double-slit photon experiment, it's just confirming phenomena that quantum physicists have been predicting for decades. Fuller's delayed choice experiment from 1978 is just a recent technologically "practical" implementation of it.

I can see why people might be alarmed by "solipsistic" hocus-pocus weirdness of it. But the probabilistic nature of reality is at the core of quantum physics. That latest experiment that shows how observation shapes reality really just confirms ideas from as far back as 1935 withSchrodinger's Cat.

But you got folks doubting the Drake Equation and Bayesian Inference because they "sympathize" with the rebuttals lol, it's prolly not worth getting worked up and putting up walls of text to argue about it.
 
pharmakos

pharmakos

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khorum_sl said:
it's prolly not worth getting worked up and putting up walls of text to argue about it.
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troof.

and at the end of the day, none of this abstract stuff is very likely to affect the way we live our day-to-day lives. might lead to technological advances somewhere way down the pipeline, but for most intents and purposes right now this stuff is just fun to think about. so no need to get worked up.
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iannis

iannis

Musty Nester
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The trouble is that it is useless if you look at these experiments and conclude "Well then, on a fundamental level reality does not exist until we look at it!" That doesn't alarm me so much as it concerns me. But it's not at all something worth getting worked up over.

"It does not seem to exist as a measurable quantity until it is measured" is not at all the same thing. It's an important and not subtle difference in the intent of the statement.

They might seem to represent the same thought, but they do not. One way is just cheap mysticism, the other way might lead into some interesting discovery. It isn't the first time we've bumped against the constraints of empiricism. It probably WILL take some natural philosophy to deal with this most strange set of observations.

I mean it really just reinforces the suspected truth that reality is ghestalt. I've had people tell me in this very thread that a watch is exactly the sum of it's parts, precisely so and no more. I'm afraid that photons disagree.
 
Drakurii

Drakurii

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Freightliner unveils the first road-legal self-driving truck | Ars Technica


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Last night, on the Hoover Dam, Freightliner (which is owned by automotive giant Daimler) unveiled the first road-legal self-driving truck. At the event last night, the Inspiration Truck (yes really) was awarded an official autonomous vehicle license plate by the governor of Nevada. Sadly, there was no mention of pricing or commercial availability?but it won't be particularly soon. The license plate is a step towards lots more testing on the roads of Nevada... and then we'll see what federal regulators think about fleets of self-driving trucks.

The lorry has the same "NHTSA Level 3" rating as Google's self-driving car, which means that it's fully autonomous, but that the driver still has to be able to take over "with sufficiently comfortable transition time" if the need arises. In this case, while the Inspiration Truck could drive itself for hundreds of miles without driver intervention, Daimler is framing this as a conversation around driver fatigue. According to Daimler, 90 percent of truck crashes are due to driver error, and driver fatigue plays a role in 1/8th of those crashes.
 
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1987

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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The Ancient_sl said:
I'm a super laymen when it comes to this, but if you are "measuring" the right one first aren't you looking at a different portion of the waveform than the one on the left?
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I have this same problem everytime I measure which one of my nuts hangs lower.
 
khorum

khorum

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AnArtifical Intelligence just independently solved the 120-year old biological mysteryaround how planarian worms regenerate new body parts. This is a double-whammy because the cellular mechanism for planarian regeneration has been sought after for regenerative medicine and without the AI it prolly would've taken ANOTHER century.

Tufts University_sl said:
First Regenerative Model Discovered by Artificial Intelligence

The discovery by Tufts University biologists presents the first model of regeneration discovered by a non-human intelligence and the first comprehensive model of planarian regeneration, which had eluded human scientists for over 100 years. The work, published in the June 4, 2015, issue of PLOS Computational Biology, demonstrates how "robot science" can help human scientists in the future.
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In the process the AI used three molecules that hadn't been considered before AND discovered two new previously unknown proteins. The formal paper ishere.
 
hodj

hodj

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I dunno why people doubt that a Singularity style future is almost certainly at play, but it clearly is. We're rapidly approaching it. I dunno if it'll be good, bad, or just different, but it is happening.
 
BrotherWu

BrotherWu

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I welcome our computer overlords and am standing by to have my consciousness uploaded to the 72 virgins simulation.
 
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