Screamfeeder's Joint

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

“I’ve said that many times even on this program,” Fauci stated in that interview. “You’ve got to watch out because although the risk is low now, you don’t need to change anything you’re doing. When you start to see community spread, this could change and force you to become much more attentive to doing things that would protect you from spread.”

"Defending his early response to the coronavirus pandemic, President Donald Trump wrongly claimed that in late February, Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, was saying, “This is no problem. This is going to blow over.”

In a Feb. 29 interview, Fauci said that “right now at this moment” the risk was “low” and there was “no need” for people “to change anything that you’re doing on a day-by-day basis.” But he added that “this could change,” that people needed to be wary of “community spread,” and that it could develop into a “major outbreak.”

Fauci said, “Obviously, you need to take it seriously and do the kind of things the (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and the Department of Homeland Security is doing. But this is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.”

“I don’t think so,” Fauci said. “The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It’s a very, very low risk to the United States, but it’s something we, as public health officials, need to take very seriously.”

Okay, lets take this series of quotes. Fauci was saying at the time, Americans shouldn't alter their behavior and things were under control--but the CDC needed to take it seriously.

So what do you believe Trump did to go against Fauci's statements here? Like what was the problem with something Trump said in this time period, or an action he took or failed to take.

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

Screamfeeder said:
Walking into a room and saying you have the biggest dick in the world says one thing and one thing only.

A lot of expertise in that area eh?

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

Screamfeeder said:
Now, since you are still on "Hillary Email" time schedule, why don't you go ahead and tell us all how the response from "The Greatest President Ever" has been in the last month?

No, we're not done with the argument. Now that we're into specifics, its time to go into what you actually have a problem with. This is part of the problem in terms of arguing with you--you don't want to get into specifics, and when you finally do, you want to change the argument. So now we have quotes that you believe seem to indicate Trump was not listening to experts, or somehow contradicting them.

In the quotes, Fauci does say Americans don't need to change their behavior and its under control. So now I need to know, specifically, what you think Trump did or failed to do that contradicts these quotes. Give me a quote from Trump that contravenes this (And full context), and/or an action or a failed action (Lets get specific, since specificity is the antidote to the gaslighting we've been talking about.)

Screamfeeder · Oct 26, 2020

Lithose said:
A lot of expertise in that area eh?

Lot of expertise in watching internet hardasses walk into city council meetings with your line verbatim, yeah.

lurkingdirk · Oct 26, 2020

Lithose said:
“I’ve said that many times even on this program,” Fauci stated in that interview. “You’ve got to watch out because although the risk is low now, you don’t need to change anything you’re doing. When you start to see community spread, this could change and force you to become much more attentive to doing things that would protect you from spread.”

"Defending his early response to the coronavirus pandemic, President Donald Trump wrongly claimed that in late February, Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, was saying, “This is no problem. This is going to blow over.”

In a Feb. 29 interview, Fauci said that “right now at this moment” the risk was “low” and there was “no need” for people “to change anything that you’re doing on a day-by-day basis.” But he added that “this could change,” that people needed to be wary of “community spread,” and that it could develop into a “major outbreak.”

Fauci said, “Obviously, you need to take it seriously and do the kind of things the (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and the Department of Homeland Security is doing. But this is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.”

“I don’t think so,” Fauci said. “The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It’s a very, very low risk to the United States, but it’s something we, as public health officials, need to take very seriously.”

Okay, lets take this series of quotes. Fauci was saying at the time, Americans shouldn't alter their behavior and things were under control--but the CDC needed to take it seriously.

So what do you believe Trump did to go against Fauci's statements here? Like what was the problem with something Trump said in this time period, or an action he took or failed to take.

Are you retarded? In the second line from what you posted:

When you start to see community spread, this could change and force you to become much more attentive to doing things that would protect you from spread.

Like wear masks and social distance. That's what he's saying. That's what the President has not conformed to. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, I'm saying there's a discrepancy between what the President is saying and what the top infections disease doctor in the country is saying. If you can't see this, you have to be dumber than a box of rocks.

But I have no stake in this fight, so whatever. Enjoy your life however you want to.

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

Screamfeeder said:
Lot of expertise in watching internet hardasses walk into city council meetings with your line verbatim, yeah.

Well if they were walking in, they didn't just crush someone...like I did you. So not sure how that applies. So far you've got jack shit, we've only even just begun to ID what you found wrong after 2 pages of you whining vaguely about orange man bad.

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

lurkingdirk said:
Are you retarded? In the second line from what you posted:

When you start to see community spread, this could change and force you to become much more attentive to doing things that would protect you from spread.

Like wear masks and social distance. That's what he's saying. That's what the President has not conformed to. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, I'm saying there's a discrepancy between what the President is saying and what the top infections disease doctor in the country is saying. If you can't see this, you have to be dumber than a box of rocks.

But I have no stake in this fight, so whatever. Enjoy your life however you want to.

“Obviously, you need to take it seriously and do the kind of things the (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and the Department of Homeland Security is doing. But this is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.”

“I don’t think so,” Fauci said. “The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It’s a very, very low risk to the United States, but it’s something we, as public health officials, need to take very seriously.”

Fauci didn't advocate for Masks for a couple months after this. He specifically told me NOT to wear masks, that only medical professionals should wear them.

Dr. Fauci on coronavirus fears: No need to change lifestyle yet

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, joins Weekend TODAY to discuss the threat of coronavirus and the possibility of the disease’s “community spread.”

www.today.com

Watch the actual video Scream linked in question. He specifically says NOT to change behavior. Can you provide me a citation with Fauci advocating for Masks distancing in Feb? If you can, I will immediately say I'm wrong and you can select my avatar for me. Since you said that's what he was saying, that should be easy right?

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

Btw

lurkingdirk

From March, advising against Masks...after the interview where you said he was saying to wear masks?

Weird. Almost like you don't know what you're talking about. Because he was expressly saying NOT to do what you are saying. Holy fuck the gas lighting is so extreme. Literally read the arguments Scream linked.

lurkingdirk · Oct 26, 2020

Lithose said:
“Obviously, you need to take it seriously and do the kind of things the (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and the Department of Homeland Security is doing. But this is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.”

“I don’t think so,” Fauci said. “The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It’s a very, very low risk to the United States, but it’s something we, as public health officials, need to take very seriously.”

Fauci didn't advocate for Masks for a couple months after this. He specifically told me NOT to wear masks, that only medical professionals should wear them.

Dr. Fauci on coronavirus fears: No need to change lifestyle yet

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, joins Weekend TODAY to discuss the threat of coronavirus and the possibility of the disease’s “community spread.”

www.today.com

Watch the actual video Scream linked in question. He specifically says NOT to change behavior. Can you provide me a citation with Fauci advocating for Masks distancing in Feb? If you can, I will immediately say I'm wrong and you can select my avatar for me. Since you said that's what he was saying, that should be easy right?

You didn't respond to what I said, you just threw another wall of text up thinking I wouldn't read it.

I'm done responding to you until you respond directly to what I said. thankyouandhaveaniceday

Screamfeeder · Oct 26, 2020

Lithose said:
No, we're not done with the argument. Now that we're into specifics, its time to go into what you actually have a problem with. This is part of the problem in terms of arguing with you--you don't want to get into specifics, and when you finally do, you want to change the argument. So now we have quotes that you believe seem to indicate Trump was not listening to experts, or somehow contradicting them.

No, we are obviously NOT done with the argument. Stop trying to play the Reality TV angle dude.

I would LOVE to get into specifics. It's what I have been trying to do since you walked in here with your "Fauci said it was 100% so its cool that Trump said it was 100%" bullshit argument while you ignore that Fauci ever said that.

If I say in a full quote... "Floods at this moment are not a problem for the citizens of Gulfport Mississippi but they should take precautions because they could see massive floods that will destroy their entire livelihood" you are going to sit in your chair and scream on the internet that "Screamfeeder said Floods are not problem!!!!!!!!!!" and repeat that over and and over and over.

That is missing the context.

Trump IS contradicit the experts.

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

lurkingdirk said:
You didn't respond to what I said, you just threw another wall of text up thinking I wouldn't read it.

I'm done responding to you until you respond directly to what I said. thankyouandhaveaniceday

You're saying in the future he meant people might need to do these things, and the President has since not conformed to them. Yes, I get it--but our argument was about the early months of the outbreak when Trump supposedly "lied" about the severity...and its clear within those months he was repeating Fauci.

That said, how did Trump no conform? Give me an example.

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

Screamfeeder said:
No, we are obviously NOT done with the argument. Stop trying to play the Reality TV angle dude.

I would LOVE to get into specifics. It's what I have been trying to do since you walked in here with your "Fauci said it was 100% so its cool that Trump said it was 100%" bullshit argument while you ignore that Fauci ever said that.

If I say in a full quote... "Floods at this moment are not a problem for the citizens of Gulfport Mississippi but they should take precautions because they could see massive floods that will destroy their entire livelihood" you are going to sit in your chair and scream on the internet that "Screamfeeder said Floods are not problem!!!!!!!!!!" and repeat that over and and over and over.

That is missing the context.

Trump IS contradicit the experts.

No, I'm not. Just answer the question. What, exactly did Trump do then that you think was wrong. Are you saying Trump's contradiction of the experts was because he didn't offer enough caveats that things could change?

Then just say that. Is that the problem?

lurkingdirk · Oct 26, 2020

Lithose said:
You're saying in the future he meant people might need to do these things, and the President has since not conformed to them. Yes, I get it--but our argument was about the early months of the outbreak when Trump supposedly "lied" about the severity...and its clear within those months he was repeating Fauci.

That said, how did Trump no conform? Give me an example.

It's pretty clear from the early Fauci quotes that even then they were taking it seriously, and watching it closely, and warning that there would possibly need to be serious action in the future. The President said it was no big deal. It was going to take care of itself and it would blow over in no time. Following that, when Fauci did change what he was saying, the President said it was no big deal and it would blow over in no time. Now that Fauci is talking about the record numbers, and warning that it could become very bad in no time, the President is talking about "rounding the corner," saying it is no big deal, and that it will blow over. And the President having huge campaign events without masks and distancing is completely in the face of what his top infections disease doctor is telling him.

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

lurkingdirk said:
It's pretty clear from the early Fauci quotes that even then they were taking it seriously, and watching it closely, and warning that there would possibly need to be serious action in the future. The President said it was no big deal. It was going to take care of itself and it would blow over in no time. Following that, when Fauci did change what he was saying, the President said it was no big deal and it would blow over in no time. Now that Fauci is talking about the record numbers, and warning that it could become very bad in no time, the President is talking about "rounding the corner," saying it is no big deal, and that it will blow over. And the President having huge campaign events without masks and distancing is completely in the face of what his top infections disease doctor is telling him.

Okay, so what date did this change occur, and can you give me a statement from Trump that said it would be no big deal after that date?

Now, I'm asking you to do this because I have citations for fairly major actions by Trump that were taken well before other countries. The one that gets spoken about most is blocking travel from China, but there were other major actions that were taken well before the late-march-april change in rhetoric from the experts. Such as emergency authorization for testing (Before Germany or SK did the same), airport screenings (Which the WHO called him an alarmist for), formation of an executive COVID council (In January) and of course at the end of March when Fauci's rhetoric changed, Trump immediately declared an emergency and blocked travel from Europe, as well as began public/private partnerships with major testing centers ect. He also began forcing companies to make masks, and equipment, activated hospital ships ect.

I can provide citations for all of this, so can you provide a citation from around April where he said it wasn't a big deal?

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

lurkingdirk said:
And the President having huge campaign events without masks and distancing is completely in the face of what his top infections disease doctor is telling him.

Wait, outdoor events are a risk now? But the experts told us the protests and large gatherings out doors were not a risk. In fact, multiple studies showed that somehow they SLOWED the spread.

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w27408/w27408.pdf

This was in CNN, NBC, MSNBC...talked about for months how outdoor gatherings have no effect on transmission.

Thousands of medical professionals signed off on this too.

Screamfeeder · Oct 26, 2020

Lithose said:
Just answer the question. What, exactly did Trump do then that you think was wrong.

As the Chief Executive and highest viewed media, political and social personality, he lied to the American people and continues to lie to the American people.

It's as simple as that. Let's pretend that he was listening to Fauci the entire time. In that case, he was lying about bringing in the best people. So either your "Greatest President Ever" is a dupe, or an idiot.

It has to be one.

“We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

“I think the virus is going to be—it’s going to be fine.”

“Looks like by April, you know in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

“I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.” (This was in Feb)

“The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

“We're going very substantially down, not up.”

“Well, we're testing everybody that we need to test. And we're finding very little problem. Very little problem.”

“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

“Now, and this is just my hunch, and — but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this. Because a lot people will have this and it's very mild.

"If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”

“I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”

“The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”

“You have to be calm. It’ll go away.”

“I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

“I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”

“When we get into April, in the warmer weather—that has a very negative effect on that, and that type of a virus.”

“No, I’m not concerned at all."

“We have a perfectly coordinated and fine-tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”

“Just stay calm. It will go away.”

“It goes away….It’s going away. We want it to go away with very, very few deaths.”

"We've stopped it.

“I don’t take responsibility at all.”

“Relax”

“The only thing we haven’t done well is get good press.”

"I intended "to always play it down.”

“I don't believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators. You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’”

“We’ve had a big problem with the young, a woman governor from — you know who I’m talking about — from Michigan,”

“Unfortunately the enemy is death. It's death. A lot of people are dying. So it's very unpleasant"

"Stay calm, it will go away. You know it -- you know it is going away, and it will go away, and we're going to have a great victory."

“I haven’t heard about testing in weeks. We’re testing more than any other nation in the world. We’ve got these great tests...But I haven’t heard about testing being a problem.”

SAME DAY

“We inherited a broken test — the whole thing was broken.”

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

Screamfeeder said:
As the Chief Executive and highest viewed media, political and social personality, he lied to the American people and continues to lie to the American people.

It's as simple as that. Let's pretend that he was listening to Fauci the entire time. In that case, he was lying about bringing in the best people. So either your "Greatest President Ever" is a dupe, or an idiot.

It has to be one.

“We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

“I think the virus is going to be—it’s going to be fine.”

“Looks like by April, you know in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

“I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.” (This was in Feb)

“The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

“We're going very substantially down, not up.”

“Well, we're testing everybody that we need to test. And we're finding very little problem. Very little problem.”

“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

“Now, and this is just my hunch, and — but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this. Because a lot people will have this and it's very mild.

"If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”

“I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”

“The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”

“You have to be calm. It’ll go away.”

“I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

“I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”

“When we get into April, in the warmer weather—that has a very negative effect on that, and that type of a virus.”

“No, I’m not concerned at all."

“We have a perfectly coordinated and fine-tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”

“Just stay calm. It will go away.”

“It goes away….It’s going away. We want it to go away with very, very few deaths.”

"We've stopped it.

“I don’t take responsibility at all.”

“Relax”

“The only thing we haven’t done well is get good press.”

"I intended "to always play it down.”

“I don't believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators. You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’”

“We’ve had a big problem with the young, a woman governor from — you know who I’m talking about — from Michigan,”

“Unfortunately the enemy is death. It's death. A lot of people are dying. So it's very unpleasant"

"Stay calm, it will go away. You know it -- you know it is going away, and it will go away, and we're going to have a great victory."

“I haven’t heard about testing in weeks. We’re testing more than any other nation in the world. We’ve got these great tests...But I haven’t heard about testing being a problem.”

SAME DAY

“We inherited a broken test — the whole thing was broken.”

If you want to criticize him because he's the boss so he gets the blame, I have no issue with that. Or even for the fact that he listened to Fauci and Fauci was wrong, that's fine too--as long as the media and you admit Fauci was wrong.

What is gas lighting is pretending the experts were right and Trump's statements that were lock step with the experts were wrong. No. You have not made one argument against that point at all.

Point to a specific lie though Scream. Don't just fill the page with quotes, give me a lie from one of them.

And this is part of the problem. Most of those, as I've shown, were also said by Fauci..So you have to retreat to the fact that Fauci said "things could change" and Trump "didn't" (But we can't even get there because you can't stay on track). So these aren't lies, they were errors and things progressed with the disease. They were errors ALL THE EXPERTS MADE. Listening to the experts and being wrong is not a fucking lie.

Now if you want to say he shouldn't have listened to them or found better experts? I literally said the same thing in the Corona thread. I've disagreed a lot with his handling of this. Mainly because he's caved to the media and the obviously incompetent CDC leadership again and again. But this gas lighting where you're saying he somehow intentionally mislead the nation for months? Absurdity. Absolute fucking absurdity. Its purely rewriting history.

Screamfeeder · Oct 26, 2020

Dear Leader...

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

Btw

lurkingdirk with you I'm going to cut right to the end because step by step arguments are like pulling teeth. Essentially my argument is your claims he made it out to be "no big deal" are derived purely from statements made between Jan-March, at which time all the experts were saying the same thing. I linked you a collage of expert driven headlines saying the SAME thing as Trump.

What you are doing is applying Trump's attitude in Jan-Feb and saying it contradicted Fauci's views in May. This is what is gas lighting, its an attempt to remove the context of how the epidemic progressed and say Trump didn't take it seriously because these statements in Feb vs the experts statements in April. This is extremely disingenuous and really the point of this whole argument. (Not to mention, as I've linked...Trump took major action consistently, to the point that the experts, for months derided him for over-reacting. So your argument seems purely built off mismatched statements within different time periods of the viruses progress).

Lithose · Oct 26, 2020

Screamfeeder said:
Dear Leader...

This isn't hard Scream. Just give me a specific lie. But you won't..because you know I'll just match it with what Fauci said, and you'll have to go back "but, but Fauci said things COULD change!"--as if somehow that makes Trump's statement wrong.

As I said to Lurking, your entire argument was based off of taking quotes out of context--by plucking them from Jan-March, when the experts were also downplaying it, and intimating Trump was acting that way when community spread was fully underway and it was declared an official pandemic (Which didn't happen until April).

This is disingenuous and gas lighting. If you actually want to get into specifics and can focus long enough to work through the argument, I'll gladly continue--but I think we both know that's not possible. (If you want to continue, we got to two points where you stopped; the specific thing Trump said or did that you believe constituted a lie or misrepresentation, rather than him simply parroting experts. Again, fairly simply.)

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