Secret Invasion

Juvarisx · Jul 19, 2023

The Kang from Loki was the winner of the Multiversal war, none of the other Kang's have any idea who he is because he doesnt exist for them. He won, erased all the rest of them and sat at the end of time. The Kang seen as a statue in the TVA after Slyvie killed He Who Remains is likely the Kang who eventually becomes him, but the work the TVA did was undone so there is a multiversal war now going on. The timeline got altered without many noticing it did.

I took Antman 3 to mean, in the TVA controlled version which was all of the MCU till Loki, Hope just was lost down there and us as the audience watched them rescue her. Its why she gave no fucks about Scot going down there at the end of Ant Man 2. In the now fucked timeline suddenly there is Kang the Conqueror down there after being exiled, and she is freaking the fuck out.

IDK its probably more thought put into it then MCU did, but its the only may it makes sense.

Chris · Jul 19, 2023

joz123 said:
You suggest a movie you didn't see could be written differently to tie-in to a show you did see?

A movie I have seen rage bait reviews of.

Honestly doesn't sound like much happens in it? Janet works with him in Quantum Realm, then intuits that he is bad, so they fight him and his retarded giant head minion who is actually everyone's favourite MCU villian Yellowjacket? Then girl power. Also Hank Pym is standing around in the background.

What did I miss? I'll watch it on Disney+ if someone recommends it.

Ambiturner said:
Everyone realizes that. There's no logical way that the Kang from Antman would have any knowledge of anything that happened in Loki. Him yelling "I'M BAAAAAAACK" like Randy Quiad in Independance Day would make zero sense.

They are 2 completely different characters separated by millions, maybe even billions of years

Yeah maybe he's hiding in the past, in the quantum realm, unpruned, so the TVA won't find him. Maybe at first he thinks Hank Pym is an agent and references them being after him.

What was the actual backstory? He was exiled to the Quantum Realm for being a baddie? Epic.

Ambiturner · Jul 19, 2023

Chris said:
Yeah maybe he's hiding in the past, in the quantum realm, unpruned, so the TVA won't find him. Maybe at first he thinks Hank Pym is an agent and references them being after him.

What was the actual backstory? He was exiled to the Quantum Realm for being a baddie? Epic.

Most people would think to themselves "You know what? I have no idea what I'm talking about so maybe I should just stop." But not know what you're talking about doesn't even phase you.

The idea that they could have just completely changed what Loki and Antman were about just so one could make a quick reference to the other is some next level shit

Chanur · Jul 19, 2023

Grizzlebeard said:
How do they get this shit so wrong? It's like the whole first season of Loki leading to this climax with Kang which isn't even referenced in Ant Man 3.

I can pretty much guarantee nothing that results from this is going to have any significant impact on phase 5. At this point I don't care if Fury lives or dies.

Should be pretty hard to fuck up something called secret invasion with shape shifting aliens but leave it to Disney.

Chris · Jul 19, 2023

Ambiturner said:
The idea that they could have just completely changed what Loki and Antman were about just so one could make a quick reference to the other is some next level shit

So what is Kangs really important to the movie origin?

Yes I'm saying that different projects can reference each other, that it's possible to plan that out and it would be some next level shit. I can tell you an IP that did just that but maybe you wouldn't belive me.

Harshaw · Jul 19, 2023

Juvarisx said:
The Kang from Loki was the winner of the Multiversal war, none of the other Kang's have any idea who he is because he doesnt exist for them. He won, erased all the rest of them and sat at the end of time. The Kang seen as a statue in the TVA after Slyvie killed He Who Remains is likely the Kang who eventually becomes him, but the work the TVA did was undone so there is a multiversal war now going on. The timeline got altered without many noticing it did.

I took Antman 3 to mean, in the TVA controlled version which was all of the MCU till Loki, Hope just was lost down there and us as the audience watched them rescue her. Its why she gave no fucks about Scot going down there at the end of Ant Man 2. In the now fucked timeline suddenly there is Kang the Conqueror down there after being exiled, and she is freaking the fuck out.

IDK its probably more thought put into it then MCU did, but its the only may it makes sense.

It was more they were sending a signal down into the Quantum Realm that was able to be found. Not just what Scott did and hopped in for quantum energy.

Juvarisx · Jul 19, 2023

Harshaw said:
It was more they were sending a signal down into the Quantum Realm that was able to be found. Not just what Scott did and hopped in for quantum energy.

I mean that is possible, but from the logic of Loki he couldn't have been down there until He Who Remains dies and the variant Kangs popped back into existence. Remember he was just done with managing the sacred timeline and thats why he offered it to them, if they said yes he would get to go retire on a beach somewhere at any point in time while they sat at the Citadel harassed by Miss Minutes.

The "sacred" timeline was ultimately one he was from or that he liked and the rub was he would be the only Kang to ever be. I suppose there is no proof the Conqueror didnt become He Who Remains, but without a multiversal war he would still have never been exiled to the quantum realm.

Chukzombi · Jul 19, 2023

Chris putting in overtime to compensate for lack of Lanx and Chukman.

Ambiturner · Jul 19, 2023

Juvarisx said:
I mean that is possible, but from the logic of Loki he couldn't have been down there until He Who Remains dies and the variant Kangs popped back into existence. Remember he was just done with managing the sacred timeline and thats why he offered it to them, if they said yes he would get to go retire on a beach somewhere at any point in time while they sat at the Citadel harassed by Miss Minutes.

The "sacred" timeline was ultimately one he was from or that he liked and the rub was he would be the only Kang to ever be. I suppose there is no proof the Conqueror didnt become He Who Remains, but without a multiversal war he would still have never been exiled to the quantum realm.

My take on it is that He Who Remains couldn't every full "win" as that would require pruning timelines to infinity which he obviously will never reach. Once he stops pruning timelines, then they'll keep popping up as if none of it ever happened.

Chris said:
So what is Kangs really important to the movie origin?

Yes I'm saying that different projects can reference each other, that it's possible to plan that out and it would be some next level shit. I can tell you an IP that did just that but maybe you wouldn't belive me.

Juvarisx already explained it to you. Nothing that happened in Loki exists for this Kang, because their timelines are mutually exclusive. It's funny the one you're fucking up the most is the one you claim to have watched.

Ossoi · Jul 19, 2023

Chukzombi said:
Chris putting in overtime to compensate for lack of Lanx and Chukman.

I was going to quote

Ambiturner to reference you being the primary poster in LOTR tv thread despite not having watched a single second, but you saved me the trouble, ty

Chukzombi · Jul 19, 2023

Ossoi said:
I was going to quote Ambiturner to reference you being the primary poster in LOTR tv thread despite not having watched a single second, but you saved me the trouble, ty

Kyougou · Jul 19, 2023

What the fuck was the point of that Beto character? Why even make a point of introducing him and giving him a name when it could've just been any random character.
I wish they would just stop trying to justify all the heroes not being here, we all know the reason and unless you have an air tight explanation, just don't bother.

Chris · Jul 19, 2023

Ambiturner said:
Juvarisx already explained it to you. Nothing that happened in Loki exists for this Kang, because their timelines are mutually exclusive. It's funny the one you're fucking up the most is the one you claim to have watched.

I know that all the Kangs were erased until the ending of Loki.

I'm... get this... using my imagination to think of a scenario where that is different without being a retcon to forge a stronger narrative link between the Loki and Antman 3 characters.

The quantum realm is pretty nonsensical but having it be a place you can hide from your timeline being erased would give it a strong reason to be in the story.

Ambiturner · Jul 20, 2023

Chris said:
I know that all the Kangs were erased until the ending of Loki.

I'm... get this... using my imagination to think of a scenario where that is different without being a retcon to forge a stronger narrative link between the Loki and Antman 3 characters.

The quantum realm is pretty nonsensical but having it be a place you can hide from your timeline being erased would give it a strong reason to be in the story.

So you're forcing something that doesn't make any sense and completely changes the TV show and the movie just for a quick wink at the audience?

You sound like exactly what Marvel looks for in a focus group.

Juvarisx · Jul 20, 2023

Chris said:
I know that all the Kangs were erased until the ending of Loki.

I'm... get this... using my imagination to think of a scenario where that is different without being a retcon to forge a stronger narrative link between the Loki and Antman 3 characters.

The quantum realm is pretty nonsensical but having it be a place you can hide from your timeline being erased would give it a strong reason to be in the story.

For myself, I kind of like that Loki's Kang obsession is seperate to what the avengers are facing. Loki is great MCU character but he isnt particularly strong enough to fight a Kang himself so he is using his ability to manipulate / being smarter to take a different route to convince the TVA that Kang is a bad dude. He knows he loses but the TVA are not slouches and their combined power might be able to take town a Victor Timely / whatever other variant shows up in s2.

Let the main Avengers fight Conqueror / Immortus / Rama Tut / Scarlet Centurion, and have the actual Human Torch origin story happen. Plus a pile of robot Kangs could be fun.

Chanur · Jul 20, 2023

Sonya is the only competent character on the show. Plus I am enjoying her fun personality.
This show is garbage however.

joz123 · Jul 20, 2023

Chris said:
I know that all the Kangs were erased until the ending of Loki.

I'm... get this... using my imagination to think of a scenario where that is different without being a retcon to forge a stronger narrative link between the Loki and Antman 3 characters.

The quantum realm is pretty nonsensical but having it be a place you can hide from your timeline being erased would give it a strong reason to be in the story.

Are You Stupid Neve Campbell GIF by filmeditor

Lanx · Jul 20, 2023

Chukzombi said:
Chris putting in overtime to compensate for lack of Lanx and Chukman.

dude i can't force myself to watch the shitty eps2 and i watched garbage like another life...

i mean it also has to do w/ the fact that this is a garbage premise, the only reason why secret invasion was really big super mega deal was that skrulls impersonated important ppl like superheros

they were so good that when elektra was a skrull, all the supes were shocked cuz wolverine couldn't smell her and petey didn't have a tingle.

but just being a skrull of regular worthless humans? who cares

Grizzlebeard · Jul 20, 2023

One thing I took away from the last episode was:

Fury is a self-obsessed dick. When he was asked why he didn't just call down a "super" to sort all the shit out he states he wanted to show he could handle it on his own. So all these folks unneccessarily died, the president's life was risked, and the world is on the brink of global thermonuclear war just so an old dude could show he was still relevant.

Harshaw · Jul 20, 2023

Grizzlebeard said:
One thing I took away from the last episode was:

Fury is a self-obsessed dick. When he was asked why he didn't just call down a "super" to sort all the shit out he states he wanted to show he could handle it on his own. So all these folks unneccessarily died, the president's life was risked, and the world is on the brink of global thermonuclear war just so an old dude could show he was still relevant.

Pretty sure all the heroes would be mad as fuck at him for gathering their DNA as well.

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Secret Invasion

Juvarisx

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Chris

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Ambiturner

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Chanur

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Chris

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Harshaw

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Juvarisx

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Ossoi

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