Soccer 2017-2018

Brando · Feb 25, 2018

My take = Dembele and Coutinho play the same position. Dembele was a LW at BVB and Coutinho plays basically in the same area.
Ossoi's take = Coutinho is a #8 yet nothing posted supports that but a 4 year old article and how Pep uses De Bruyne and Silva?

Here's Lallana's heat map vs. ManC from last year, notice he actually has actions in the defensive zone?

Here's Naby Keita vs Porto in the CL this year:

Here's De Bruyne's touches vs. LFC in the 5-0 loss earlier this year:

Here's the average positions of Barca players yesterday:

They actually moved Dembele to the right so Coutinho could play on the left. I don't dispute that Coutinho has actually had some games as a true CM, notably the home game against Arsenal in 13/14, but he's never consistently played there and there is no way it's his best position. Barca fans view him as Iniesta's replacement but I think that's just a pipe dream and unless they can play Girona every week they're going to have trouble fitting all 4 of their attackers on the field at the same time with only 2 CM's who are all immobile at this point in their career.

Brando · Feb 25, 2018

For MUFC/CFC, a bit more open than I expected but not a lot in it. Morata was onside and had a great finish, oh well.

Ossoi · Feb 25, 2018

Brando said:
Ossoi's take = Coutinho is a #8 yet nothing posted supports that but a 4 year old article and how Pep uses De Bruyne and Silva?

yeah apart from his 14 game PL heat map. Good one

How about this from his Manager after he played in midfield vs West Ham at the end of last season

"He plays at the moment kind of wing ‘10’ but he can also play as a No.8. That is possible and maybe he will have more influence and we can involve another player on the wing."

”"We could have played Adam No 8 and Phil No 10 but we wanted to create space for [Coutinho] to play passes, to be in the game, to be influential and Adam, with his high energetic running in this gap, running in between"

Brando said:
Here's the average positions of Barca players yesterday:

Ossoi said:
I couldnt care less where he played for Barcelona, it's irrelevant to this discussion

Brando said:
I like the post but I don't see how you're disputing my contention that Coutinho is not a midfielder.

Coutinho has been played in midfield by successive Liverpool managers. He's also played in the front 3 but has never been a traditional left winger

Brando said:
In games where Coutinho played with Mane, Salah and Firmino his average position was on the left as we played a lopsided 4-4-2 to fit him in. He may have been listed in the mid 3 but he didn't actually play there. Then when any of the other 3 were rested he played on the left wing in a 4-3-3. So yeah, he's not a mid even though he's had some games there in the past.

This is wrong and has been proven to be wrong by the heat maps

Here, I made his 14 game PL heat map idiot/noob proof for you

Maul · Feb 25, 2018

Brando said:
For MUFC/CFC, a bit more open than I expected but not a lot in it. Morata was onside and had a great finish, oh well.

Lukaku had a really strong game, which was surprising.

Brando · Feb 26, 2018

Ossoi said:
yeah apart from his 14 game PL heat map. Good one

How about this from his Manager after he played in midfield vs West Ham at the end of last season

"He plays at the moment kind of wing ‘10’ but he can also play as a No.8. That is possible and maybe he will have more influence and we can involve another player on the wing."

”"We could have played Adam No 8 and Phil No 10 but we wanted to create space for [Coutinho] to play passes, to be in the game, to be influential and Adam, with his high energetic running in this gap, running in between"

Coutinho has been played in midfield by successive Liverpool managers. He's also played in the front 3 but has never been a traditional left winger

This is wrong and has been proven to be wrong by the heat maps

Here, I made his 14 game PL heat map idiot/noob proof for you

This is getting really tedious. I bet you couldn't find one single heat map that looks like that for a player that starts as a nominal CM. With that said instead of continuing with a discussion that is becoming quite pointless lets sum this up that you believe Coutinho signing made sense for Barca as he can play as a CM which was the whole point of contention all along, no? I believe if it does work out it won't be as a CM. Time will tell.

Ossoi · Feb 26, 2018

Brando said:
This is getting really tedious.

Finally something I can agree with

Brando said:
you believe Coutinho signing made sense for Barca as he can play as a CM which was the whole point of contention all along, no? .

No, the point of contention was the below posts

Brando said:
Where it all falls apart for Barca is then spending even more for Coutinho who basically plays the same position as Dembele and doesn't address their midfield issues at all with Iniesta

Brando said:
In games where Coutinho played with Mane, Salah and Firmino his average position was on the left as we played a lopsided 4-4-2 to fit him in. He may have been listed in the mid 3 but he didn't actually play there. Then when any of the other 3 were rested he played on the left wing in a 4-3-3. So yeah, he's not a mid even though he's had some games there in the past.

The second post especially is just full of wrong, to the extent where it makes me question whether you actually watch LFC games

Brando said:
you believe Coutinho signing made sense for Barca as he can play as a CM which was the whole point of contention all along, no? .

Coutinho is the heir apparent to Iniesta, how you can't see this is beyond me

Brando · Feb 27, 2018

I asked you to show me a heat map of another CM's that matches Coutinho, you either didn't bother or can't find one of a CM that never is on the right side of the field but for corners. I posted heat maps of other #8's, they don't match Coutinho's in that they actually cover the whole field. I can find a lot of heat maps for left forwards that look like his though. Highlighting that he cuts into the middle is not the same thing. When the evidence is clear he sticks to the left hand side of the field with minimal defensive action then you can state how he's listed in the starting XI and talked about as a #8 but that's just not reality. To then question if I watch the games when what you posted clearly lines up with what I observe is somewhat comical.

None of this has to do with if Coutinho is a good player or not, he most definitely is and he certainly will improve Barca. That doesn't mean though that I can't have an opinion that if I by some miracle I were making the decisions at Barca I would not have spent the money on Coutinho after getting Dembele. Messi has only so much time in his prime left, I would have just gotten Coutinho and then spent on actual dedicated midfielders. Once you got Dembele first I still would have spent the Coutinho money on more midfield centric players instead of him. With that said the talent they'll have on the field regardless means this discussion only matters in a handful of games over a season.

Ossoi · Feb 27, 2018

Brando said:
I asked you to show me a heat map of another CM's that matches Coutinho, you either didn't bother or can't find one of a CM that never is on the right side of the field but for corners. I posted heat maps of other #8's, they don't match Coutinho's in that they actually cover the whole field. I can find a lot of heat maps for left forwards that look like his though. Highlighting that he cuts into the middle is not the same thing. When the evidence is clear he sticks to the left hand side of the field with minimal defensive action then you can state how he's listed in the starting XI and talked about as a #8 but that's just not reality. To then question if I watch the games when what you posted clearly lines up with what I observe is somewhat comical.

None of this has to do with if Coutinho is a good player or not, he most definitely is and he certainly will improve Barca. That doesn't mean though that I can't have an opinion that if I by some miracle I were making the decisions at Barca I would not have spent the money on Coutinho after getting Dembele. Messi has only so much time in his prime left, I would have just gotten Coutinho and then spent on actual dedicated midfielders. Once you got Dembele first I still would have spent the Coutinho money on more midfield centric players instead of him. With that said the talent they'll have on the field regardless means this discussion only matters in a handful of games over a season.

I'm blocking you for a bit because otherwise I'm going to keep getting dragged into your stupidity.

Edit:

Seriously fucking lol, I post a fucking quote from Klopp backing up everything I've said and you're still trying to continue this argument:

"He plays at the moment kind of wing ‘10’ but he can also play as a No.8. That is possible and maybe he will have more influence and we can involve another player on the wing."

Let's break that down. The #10 is traditionally a central playmaker. By saying his current role is a "wing 10" he's referring to the fact Coutinho starts on the left but comes inside to exert more influence centrally.

"but he can also play as a No.8." - AS AN ATTACKING MIDFIELDER (lol at going on about his defensive touches, double lol at using a City game when LFC will be under more offensive pressure than most of their PL matches)

"and we can involve another player on the wing" which totally contradicts your "his average position was on the left as we played a lopsided 4-4-2 to fit him in."

And I'm going to sign off with the obvious "when you get to Anfield let me know", didn't want to play that card but you leave me no choice

Brando · Feb 27, 2018

Mute me bro. The Anfield dig is about the only fact you have.

Ossoi · Feb 27, 2018

You're still blocked dude.

Oh look, an entire video dedicated to analysing Coutinho's performances in midfield for LFC, but nope

Brando is right, he never played midfield for LFC

Oh look, another video pointing out that his average position across multiple games REGARDLESS OF WHERE HE'S POSITIONED IN THE FORMATION is always an offensive central midfield position

Pyratec · Feb 27, 2018

I realize that no one here probably cares, but Im super pumped about my local team right now. They havent won the cup since 1987 and the league since 1986 and right now they just beat Basel (Man City's Champion League opponent) in the semi-final of the cup to get into the final and theyre in 1st place, 11 points ahead of Basel in the league right now. Could finally be our year to win something, but nothing is won yet. Let's go Young Boys!

faille · Feb 27, 2018

Pyratec said:
I realize that no one here probably cares, but Im super pumped about my local team right now. They havent won the cup since 1987 and the league since 1986 and right now they just beat Basel (Man City's Champion League opponent) in the semi-final of the cup to get into the final and theyre in 1st place, 11 points ahead of Basel in the league right now. Could finally be our year to win something, but nothing is won yet. Let's go Young Boys!

awesome! Good luck with it.

Brando · Feb 28, 2018

Ossoi said:
You're still blocked dude.

Oh look, an entire video dedicated to analysing Coutinho's performances in midfield for LFC, but nope Brando is right, he never played midfield for LFC

Oh look, another video pointing out that his average position across multiple games REGARDLESS OF WHERE HE'S POSITIONED IN THE FORMATION is always an offensive central midfield position

Wow, you're truly out of your mind. I didn't say he NEVER played in midfield. All that for something so retarded.

Springbok · Feb 28, 2018

Man this is a ton of discussion for a guy plying his trade in Spain.

In real news, seems Wenger is going this summer (assuming he doesn't win EL - loooooool). So long, farewell, etc etc. Sad, but its time. All these AFTV monkeys pining for Henry to come back like some sort of messiah is fucking hysterical. Great idea, give the keys to the kingdom to a guy who has zero worthwhile coaching experience all because he was a club legend. Seasons been a disaster, it will continue to remain a disaster unless drastic measures are taken soon. The only silver lining is Sanchez has looked like the petulant bitch he is since he's been at United, and shoehorning him into the team hasn't improved them one bit. So I got that going for me, which is nice.

Pyratec · Feb 28, 2018

Springbok said:
Man this is a ton of discussion for a guy plying his trade in Spain.

In real news, seems Wenger is going this summer (assuming he doesn't win EL - loooooool). So long, farewell, etc etc. Sad, but its time. All these AFTV monkeys pining for Henry to come back like some sort of messiah is fucking hysterical. Great idea, give the keys to the kingdom to a guy who has zero worthwhile coaching experience all because he was a club legend. Seasons been a disaster, it will continue to remain a disaster unless drastic measures are taken soon. The only silver lining is Sanchez has looked like the petulant bitch he is since he's been at United, and shoehorning him into the team hasn't improved them one bit. So I got that going for me, which is nice.

Yeah, I also have the feeling that Wenger really will go at the end of the year this time. Winning FA cups is nice and all, but not qualifying for the CL is a financial problem for top tier teams. I just looked it up and making it to the group stage alone is worth 12.7m €, each win in the groups is worth another 1.5m and a draw is good for 500,000. So thats 15m € or so each year. Then another 6m if a team manages to qualify from the groups. I won't mention the money for getting further than that as Arsenal invariably draws Bayern or Barca in the round of 16. Granted even 20m € isnt all THAT much these days but it still hurts.

I don't envy whomever ends up replacing him, even if the results haven't been great lately, the man is a legend at the club and look how well things went for Moyes at United.

Brando · Feb 28, 2018

Turnover down but profits increase as Arsenal announce latest financial results | Arseblog News - the Arsenal news site

I think Arse are kind of fucked whether Wenger stays or goes and that they'll be dependent on Spuds or Chelski fucking up more than anything else in the short term. I get that they needed to be prudent when building the Emirates but to the extent that they sat on so much cash for so long to where it doesn't even mean anything is going to be damning in the end. It was one thing to have £120m when a top player's transfer fee was on average £30m. Now what does that even get you? I'd bet you that LFC will end up making more for the 17/18 season with a younger squad and another Anfield expansion on the way. So they're going to have 4 teams making more money than them plus Spuds who while way behind on revenue still have a better squad.

Threelions · Mar 1, 2018

Wenger out.

Brando · Mar 1, 2018

Is today really surprising? Arse is toast.

Threelions · Mar 1, 2018

Brando said:
Is today really surprising? Arse is toast.

No, of course it's not unexpected. I've been suffering slowly for the past ten years without any change. I love the man and have supported him continuing season by season, but I definitely believe he should have gone last year after beating the Champions in the FA CUP final. I won't be shocked if we lose to Milan. It absolutely kills me to watch our defense in absolute shambles. Both wing backs are being asked to do too much and Mustafi is fucking dog shit. Kos is in the twilight of his career, but still a stable CB. Xhaka needs to fuck off, what was he brought in to do?? Spray balls around the pitch? He was meant to break up opposing attacks but he can't catch a whiff of attacking players farts'.

Brando · Mar 2, 2018

Yet watch Mustafi start for Germany at the WC and be fine. I’d say the issue is more the players don’t buy into the system or there really isn’t a system at all. Wenger is somewhat notorious for not having set patterns of play for offense and needs the players to have an understanding for it all to work. Which is why in the past any injury would set the team back and start the process all over. Who’s to say that’s not the same for the defense?

Soccer 2017-2018

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