Star Wars Battlefront II

Utnayan said:

Hey Denaut , I would be curious to gain your insight and thoughts on this "Dev cost" increasing debate. Specifically in regard to how cheap low cost labor is infiltrating the industry, reuse of assets is becoming abundant (With tricks to make it seem like it's new content in some cases) and shed some light on entertainment per dollar value misconceptions in the consumer world today.

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The answer is, unsatisfactorily, that it's complicated. Certain parts of development are crazy expensive and getting worse, while technology has made other parts surprisingly cheap. Also marketing costs can be extremely high.

It really depends on what market you are targeting, what genre you are in, and how much of your game fits into pre-existing tech. Everything revolving around animation and animation systems (state machines, blending, syncing, etc) is horrendously expensive and only getting worse with fidelity. This is why so many indie games are "pixel art." I shudder every time I try to imagine how the Assassin's Creed pipeline looks.

They are right in the sense that the cost of producing a AAA game and then competing in that market is going up, but that has less to do directly with making a game and much more to do with marketing, engine/tech, and management overhead costs. Meanwhile making a small scale labor of love is actually cheaper than ever (although art is usually still half of a budget) because good tools exist to make gameplay features and no one really expects much from you.

The result is actually the squeezing out of mid-size AA style developers, they are feeling the pinch the worst. They can't really expect to reliably get by just selling steam games anymore because their costs are too high but they also can't compete with the big boys at all because publishers are really only fudning go big or go home type projects.

Keep in mind that a game like BF2 doesn't have to just pay for itself anymore but also a large, expensive, multi-corporate bureaucracy with people all over the place and at every level getting in the way. It becomes time consuming, expensive, and difficult to get even basic stuff done because a committee has to fiddle with, review, and approve of everything. It is game development by act of Congress and it sucks.

Lets take this internet anger and funnel it somewhere more appropriate - Exclusive: U.S. agency to vote to repeal 'net neutrality' rules - FCC chief

Denaut said:

Since some people are apparently are operating under a delusion to justify their poor decisions (Dis), blind box mechanics are designed specifically to take money from people that are bad at math, a slave to their dopamine spikes, or especially both. If you like (rather than tolerate because you have no other choice) these mechanics then you are one of the above.

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Honest question, did you even read anything I posted?

The only justification I posted on why I spent money on the game and loot boxes is because I am a self admitted Star Wars fanboi. Hell I have a personalized license plate for my all black truck that simply says SITH on it. These past posts have just been trying to figure out why some people are so up in arms at this particular game vs. the countless others that have done the exact same thing. You guys act like this is new, but it isn't. Ill remind you about Diablo 3 AH, and the main reason why that dovetail is because Blizzard designed the loot system so antithetical to the past Diablo games. They had to go back and completely rework the game in order the save the series. I wonder if the loot system was released as it is set up today with that same AH system would it still be acceptable or palatable to gamers?

On the flip side of that, what about CS? or TF2? You have people who have scammed folks on rare cosmetic drops by taking advantage of Steam's loot box system. A system that they still have not changed. It didnt give folks an advantage over others in game, but the fact that you could trade said cosmetic items led people to spend thousands and thousands of dollars not just on loot boxes, but on those silly gambling sites. Steam chose to willful ignore that part of their gaming community was being exploited because their "loot crate" system was basically pure profit coming in. I dont seem to recall this community or gamers in general showing the same kind of vitriol towards Steam as they do EA currently. Sure there was some blow-back from gamers, but it was a minor blip on the game news cycle.

All I have said was, yes, I lost 120 bucks on loot crates. I bought them initially for two reasons. 1.) It is Star Wars 2.) I wanted to unlock all content asap

Why did I want to unlock all content asap? Time, and gaming history. Time, because I just simply dont have it to sit in front of a PC and play games non stop, it just isn't happening anymore. I am not blaming anyone, it is what it is. Gaming history because outside of World of Warcraft, I generally have a low stick around time for games. So I want to experience as much as possible as fast as possible. Some folks can spend 60 dollars on the box copy, and play the game for years. That is not me anymore. Add all that up together plus I have the means to spend more money than apparently most of you have an appetite for, that is why I spent the extra cash.

I have repeatedly posted, this is the last time I buy an EA game. So obviously I agree that the value I received from not only the game itself, but the loot crates was not worth it, never have I said otherwise. I didnt whine about it, I choose to spend that money, I tried to get my money back, and they refused. So be it, I am moving on, and like I said before the market will bear out how games are packaged/sold. I think the main thing that really pisses some of you guys off is pretty basic. Guys have money, and some guys dont. This boils down to "He thinks he is better than me" thinking. And Ill be honest with you folks, if that is what this is really about, not my problem. I dont know any of you, nor do I care to. I am just here posting my point of view.

Dis said:

As much as it pains me to say, Ut is right. There is nothing ground breaking about this game at all. They took the very BASICs of Battlefield mechanics, made it with pretty graphics and sounds, then slapped it together. I cant even for sure know they intended for the StarFighter portion to be as good as it is, and it is very good IMHO. Ground breaking would be have been somehow combining the two modes into one big battle. Achieving sub objectives in one part of the game, EG ground, affects the other in a significant way, and lets not forget the very basics like getting into a prone position, destructible environments, huge maps that are open and dont make you feel claustrophobic. The list could go on.

I am perfectly OK with loot crates in or out, doesnt bother me. But they should have delivered an AAA game to go with it. Especially with such a huge IP, it deserves better.

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The ground game is competently made and super starwars pretty so it does what I needed that part of the game to do. But I have other shooters to play with. I don't have a good starfighter dog fighting through star destroyer game until this came out and so the starfighter portion is both excellently done and fills a gaming niche not currently occupied by anything in my library at the moment. So for the starfighter portion alone it was worth the purchase. It is really head and shoulders above battlefront 1's space combat and every map I have had a chance to play so far is very enjoyable. The funny thing is the whole combining the two was done in starwars battlefront 1. Their DLC campaigns had a multiplayer mode that basically ran you through a series of map types. Like the rogue one you started with a space fight to breach the gate succeed at that you land on the planet and try to plant demo charges on some locations as a distraction. Complete that and you have to get the data and try to exfiltrate it. So it goes through almost all the major multiplayer map types in a cohesive story. I was kinda surprised I did not see that in battlefront 2 but it may be something they add once the movie comes out for a force awakens campaign mode.

kaid said:

The ground game is competently made and super starwars pretty so it does what I needed that part of the game to do. But I have other shooters to play with. I don't have a good starfighter dog fighting through star destroyer game until this came out and so the starfighter portion is both excellently done and fills a gaming niche not currently occupied by anything in my library at the moment. So for the starfighter portion alone it was worth the purchase. It is really head and shoulders above battlefront 1's space combat and every map I have had a chance to play so far is very enjoyable. The funny thing is the whole combining the two was done in starwars battlefront 1. Their DLC campaigns had a multiplayer mode that basically ran you through a series of map types. Like the rogue one you started with a space fight to breach the gate succeed at that you land on the planet and try to plant demo charges on some locations as a distraction. Complete that and you have to get the data and try to exfiltrate it. So it goes through almost all the major multiplayer map types in a cohesive story. I was kinda surprised I did not see that in battlefront 2 but it may be something they add once the movie comes out for a force awakens campaign mode.

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I was more hoping to intertwined Starfighter mode with Ground assault. I know you can purchase to fly a vehicle on some maps with battlepoints, but other than exploiting the shit out of it (killing AI ships to accumulate a fuckton of battlepoints), it doesn't really have any meaning on your team as a whole.

Quick scenario: Return of the Jedi scenario: Ground assault the force field generators, meanwhile up above you are battling it out where the empire is defending the Death Star and has an upper hand in open space. So time is of the essence to get the generator down or this will be a short game (reinforcement counter quickly degenerates). Now once the generator is down the starfighter players can now bear down on destroying the deathstar while the empire defends it. Meanwhile below, sides switch, empire is now assaulting the force field generators to regain control. Empire above has to delay the Rebels as long as they can while the Empire tries to retake control.

Pretty basic scenario, but that is basically what I mean by tying the to game types together somehow.

Dis said:

The comprehension skills on some of you is disturbing...

Lol auto correct off means when I am typing out a message and mispell a word it does not autocorrect. Hope this helps you understand the functionality of autocorrect!!!!

This is a hell of a derail though, loving it...

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Yeah I'm loving it too. I misread your post, but this just makes it even better. You typed thier THREE TIMES of your own volition. Indeed r/iamverysmart. Don't ever talk about grammar or spelling ever again kid.

The Dauntless One said:

Yeah I'm loving it too. I misread your post, but this just makes it even better. You typed thier THREE TIMES of your own volition. Indeed r/iamverysmart. Don't ever talk about grammar or spelling ever again kid.

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Derail back on I guess. So wait, let me get this straight, you are a moron who cant read (self-admitted). Then you go and post this gem "Dont ever talk about grammar or spelling ever again kid". ProTip: I have yet to attack anyone on their grammar or spelling

FFS are you doubling down on your stupidity? Again, your comprehension skills need some help, here you go man, RIF.org, I am here to help!

What a glorious mess...

Dis said:

Quick scenario: Return of the Jedi scenario: Ground assault the force field generators, meanwhile up above you are battling it out where the empire is defending the Death Star and has an upper hand in open space. So time is of the essence to get the generator down or this will be a short game (reinforcement counter quickly degenerates). Now once the generator is down the starfighter players can now bear down on destroying the deathstar while the empire defends it. Meanwhile below, sides switch, empire is now assaulting the force field generators to regain control. Empire above has to delay the Rebels as long as they can while the Empire tries to retake control.

Pretty basic scenario, but that is basically what I mean by tying the to game types together somehow.

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This sounds terrible

Rigging / Animation stuff is so damn time consuming. I think big projects just try to throw people at it.

There are more autorigging tools around and progress is being made all the time but it is never perfect. Those usually only get you the basic bipedal bones as well, and give you very samey moving characters. All the blizz overwatch characters have fully custom rigs.

I've never seen a tool preserve rigging information after a change either. A big problem I have is if you change something in a mesh, like fixing an unsnapped vert that created a T junction, the entire goddamn thing has to be rerigged. I don't know how rig people don't just lose their minds.

And it is that specialized now. Used to an artist would do character modeling, rigging, animation, whatever. Now all the roles are specialized in the big companies.

Anyway, my 2 coppers on the cost thing, coming from someone that hasn't really done AAA in years.

Its a start. But then you get the buy a key, which just happens to have this free box as a bonus!

Vimeseh said:

Its a start. But then you get the buy a key, which just happens to have this free box as a bonus!

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We're selling you exclusive access to viewing this slot machine and if the AI player wins you get a bonus too!

I dunno if this would work, but I would forgo all of TV/cable advertising. Fuck them. I was watching TWD the other night (about two-three weeks ago) and it was absurd the amount of gaming advertisiments I saw on there. I think that's where the majority of their marketing dollars go, and I would think that it's a dying medium. That's for them to decide. You've gotta think, we're in a world now with digital downloads playing a massive role in that market.

But I dunno. Last I heard about TV/cable advertising it was fucking ridiculously expensive.

lol, good job EA.