StarCraft 2
- Thread starter Stosh
- Start date
Anyone have extra HoTS beta keys? I haven't played in about a year and I wanted to check out the new units and stuff...
Ladder is so frustrating/annoying. Similar to WoL everyone has first refined the cheesiest most abusive builds first. Playing ladder isn't a matter of if you'll get cheesed or not it is a matter of what cheese you'll be getting.
Luckily my TvT build is pretty cheese proof. Still having issues with things like proxied Oracles.
Luckily my TvT build is pretty cheese proof. Still having issues with things like proxied Oracles.
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Blizzard really put all their effort into maintaining protoss as the #1 cheese race with HOTS. The oracle really serves no other purpose than as a cheese rush unit, right? Never saw it used late game. And 100 gas DT shrine. Seriously.
I just had the funniest bug too. Ally pauses and leaves. Game is now stuck in pause mode. Both enemies are now trying to unpause. 5 minutes and up.
we didn't lose at that point but held their cheese rush, just early quitter so I'm not gonna bail either.
btw is anyone else getting glitches with vespine gas on windowed Fullscreen?
I just had the funniest bug too. Ally pauses and leaves. Game is now stuck in pause mode. Both enemies are now trying to unpause. 5 minutes and up.
we didn't lose at that point but held their cheese rush, just early quitter so I'm not gonna bail either.
btw is anyone else getting glitches with vespine gas on windowed Fullscreen?
The pause/unpause bug is pretty well known. Not sure on an ETA of fix.
As for Oracles you could say the same thing about Banshees. They aren't really a staple for unit mixes but I could see in the late game a Toss getting 3 or so Oracles and just ravaging an expo's mineral line protected by only a single turret. Cheaper DT shrine doesn't really help out with the rush timings. Sure 100 gas is 100 gas but it still takes forever to get to that tech. If you lose to a DT rush you're just a baddie.
As for Oracles you could say the same thing about Banshees. They aren't really a staple for unit mixes but I could see in the late game a Toss getting 3 or so Oracles and just ravaging an expo's mineral line protected by only a single turret. Cheaper DT shrine doesn't really help out with the rush timings. Sure 100 gas is 100 gas but it still takes forever to get to that tech. If you lose to a DT rush you're just a baddie.
Sidian
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Problem with DTs though is that it's so much harder to scout it in HotS then it is in WoL. Not only is it less gas to build, but protoss don't need as many sentries as they did before to defend properly since mothership core is so powerful. Before if the protoss only had like 1 or 2 sentries out you knew he was saving that gas for DTs most likely. Now though, you'll actually have to scout it with a scan/overlord to know for sure.
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I add Banshees in my army to snipe tanks in the late game whenever the other terran doesn't have enough Vikings.
Banshees are pretty good at destroying buildings, so 4-5 can take out an expansion in no time.
Cloaked banshees can harass when your opponent has no detection at that spot.
Oracles? Really just good at shooting light armored stuff that doesn't shoot back. They can only harass when your opponent has absolutely nothing there.
And I'm not complaining about cheese being hard to deal with, it's just funny that like 75% of all When Cheese Fails videos featured protoss and it doesn't really look like that's gonna change.
Yeah but the metagame is also shifting around making DT rushes worse. Terran simply has to get an earlier engi bay in TvP for a variety of reasons. Oracles are one but also because Terran can't do anything early game anyways so may as well get faster upgrades. With those two things combined it really makes DT rushing worse than it was in WoL. It even wasn't that good a build in WoL because it sets the Toss back so much that if they don't outright win it is almost impossible to come back. One of the few meta shifts that is a saving grace for DT rushes is MSC pokes makes walling less attractive in TvP in HOTS.
Oracles are an extremely under investigated unit imo. Everyone sees how fast they rape a mineral line so they just proxy a stargate, make 2 and pray it works. I don't even see anyone experiement with them to support their army yet. I'm sure in the future we will.
On that same token you'll also notice Zerg has the worst winrate in HOTS. Like I said everyone is doing early game abusive shit which Zerg is, obviously, the worse at defending. They didn't really get anything in HOTS to help them out in that regard. Getting annoyed by the zerg whiners are coming back on the various forums bitching that sometimes they can die to all-ins even when they make *gasp* 3 Roaches!
On that same token you'll also notice Zerg has the worst winrate in HOTS. Like I said everyone is doing early game abusive shit which Zerg is, obviously, the worse at defending. They didn't really get anything in HOTS to help them out in that regard. Getting annoyed by the zerg whiners are coming back on the various forums bitching that sometimes they can die to all-ins even when they make *gasp* 3 Roaches!
Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
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I poked around with them and they are fucking awesome, basically a sentry for late game and if the other guy forgets defense at his expos, you can seize the opportunity very easily. Having 1-3 oracles with your army will be a sign of a good protoss macro player.
Xequecal
Trump's Staff
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I'm honestly wondering if they're going to have to address proxy rax reapers against Zerg. 99.9% of Zerg hatch first against Terran, so if you start proxying raxes on 8 or 9 supply you win every time.
I think they will because the 888 build is a problem in TvT as well. Not really sure what to do to weaken it though. Reapers already suck in real life engagements and the 888 isn't really good against hatch first per-se just the extremely late pools that go along with hatch first. Maybe Zerg will just have to drone scout on 9 or something. On the same token if the Zerg stops the 888 gambit the Terran is completely and totally fucked.
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I don't really see why zerg should get special anti rush treatment. I never understood why. If I go CC first as a terran and delay my barracks until 16 scv, I'll get fucking murdered.