Starfield - Fallout fallout that isn't ES6

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!

Burns

Avatar of War Slayer
7,441
14,655
There are good games being released constantly. You’re posting this in a Bethesda thread which is a bloated company that outsources everything then cobbles it all together. Instead of preordering games just because it’s the next shiny thing by a big company that all the paid off journalists give 10/10 scores, you pick up games that have 90-95% ratings on steam by the gamers who actually pay for and play the games, you’ll find there are still great games being released by small studios all the time.

BG 3 is only an exception in that they are a bloated company with tons of resources but still actually made a good game. Now those circumstances are rare and are beating the odds.
By the end of DoS2, Larian went from a AA studio of around 40 people in one location to 130 in three locations. Then by the end of BG3, they went from those 130 people in three locations to 450 in six locations that they have now. I would argue that that they were hiring people as needed and ended up not being bloated with a bunch of scrubs. (Edit: Wiki says they had 130 employees at the end of DoS2, but they had already started on BG3 by that time)

The complaints from various devs that work in other AAA studios about how they should not be held up to BG3 standards...for reasons, also supports the notion that Larian was getting good productivity from it's people.
 
Last edited:

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
39,409
129,648
The ship combat and space exploration is my #1 disappointment with the game. What's promising is that the ship combat mechanics aren't terrible once you git gud, it's just the design of the space parts don't support the kind of "Space Combat/Exploration: Bethesda Edition" gameplay mode we expected. There's a lot of really obvious ways that could be helped but from my perspective the biggest ones are:

* Requiring some in-ship navigation to get to new stars/planets/moons
* Creating space areas with real exploration in a classic Bethesda sense
* Gating access to star systems on being able to defeat opponents


I expected something like, a quest needs you to go to Procyon II in the Procyon A star system that is level 30. You haven't been there yet, and need to travel to two star systems to get there. You jumped to the first one and get a random event, then jump to the next star system and get a fixed combat event (ex: pirate blockade) that you need to defeat to unlock the Procyon A star system. That fixed event is too tough, so you need to reload or respawn and spend some time increasing your ship combat lethality before you can make it to Procyon II. You level up Pilot, unlock Class B ship, farm some creds, then come back with a battleship and roll the pirate blockade and unlock a new star system.

Starfield doesn't have this kind of encounter system (since everything is random and you can just grav warp away from combat), so the space combat is more like a minigame you have to deal with in certain quests or one you can pursue in side missions rather than being a core gameplay mode.

"Mods will fix it" is probably true in this case, but I guess I don't really care since I'm getting enough space combat anyway, even if it's not well organized.
I hope you're right (assuming I'm reading this right) that the bones are there for modders to flesh out the space stuff.

It just annoys me that the price of admission doesn't include that, and you're relying on people who didn't develop the game to do it.

And it doubly annoys me that a developer can basically release something they were too lazy or just inept to do themselves so someone else has to make their game decent for them.
 

rhinohelix

Dental Dammer
<Gold Donor>
3,043
5,007
I do not think there is really anything here to git gud at really though. It's a classic arcade space shooter at that point. Slow down, turn to acquire target, speed up half way and fire.

Now the cool aspect of space combat that I think should have been leveraged more in Starfield is the ability to target the engines, cripple the ship, and board it. Aside from a few instances so far (At least in my initial playthrough of which I am getting side-tracked on Bounty's and Faction quests) there could have been a ton more done here. Invading large capital ships (Unless this happens and I have not gotten to it yet) with some really good creative stories for this aspect once on the ship and mix/match some feature sets when on the ship.

But this is Bethesda. Community creates that, they found a way to monetize it, and then come out with 4 remasters.
The "git gud" part is learning the UI, which re-uses the tap/long press combos controls intended for limited buttons on controllers remapped directly on PC, for actions we haven't needed before in a Bethesda game.

It's been a long time since I have seen a game so divisive in its reception, with some people loving it and some people absolutely hating. Console wars don't explain this chasm.

The big question that people are answering isn't what people think it is. It isn't "Is the game good?" The game is good and fun, when taken on its face and without expectations. There is an unexpected learning curve, because they don't do much tutorialing, and throw you into the world, and thus the experience of "After X hours, my enjoyment level went up/way up/got better".

The question that people are answering, and this is entirely Bethesda's fault, "Is does this game meet my expectations?" Bethesda made a lot of sales-pitch presentations, generated a lot of excitement, sold the sizzle as much or more than the steak and then made a Bethesda Game Studio game in space/Sci-Fi Setting. For better or worse, people invested their hopes and dreams, their expectations of what No Man's Sky/Star Citizen/ even Skyrim/Fallout 2.0 in Space, and were expecting a generational improvement, and what they got was a whole lot of incrementalism, and in some cases not even that.

The game is fun when you play it for what it is. When measured against what it could have or should have been, whatever that upper imaginary limit/black box is, different for every person, it very obviously falls short.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users

Burns

Avatar of War Slayer
7,441
14,655
The space combat is pretty shitty, or I am doing it wrong. Everything outside of missiles is auto seeking as soon as it's in front of a ship (until you get a lock, then missiles too), so the "difficulty" is just building a bigger bullet sponge that can take three ships barring down on you while you close the gap, then get behind one, finish it off, then move to the next one, etc. All the while the unengaged ships are plinking you.

Every other 3D space game I have played allows you do things like barrel roles to evade incoming fire.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Valderen

Space Pirate
<Bronze Donator>
4,546
2,772
0
The game is fun when you play it for what it is. When measured against what it could have or should have been, whatever that upper imaginary limit/black box is, different for every person, it very obviously falls short.

That statement pretty much nails it.

I've sunk 110 hours so far, and I'm not close to being done and I am having a blast.

I've said this early on, the game is a disappointment because of my expectation. This could have been so much more, but it fell short. It's still fun to me though.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users

Big Phoenix

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Gold Donor>
46,383
98,551
The let down comes from seeing the same jank that was in skyrim and fallout still as present as ever 10+ years later.
 
  • 6Like
Reactions: 5 users

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
11,492
5,242
If you expected that to change... well, that's the definition of insanity.

I set the bar about an inch off the ground, as I do with every Bethesda game, and for once they actually massively surpassed my expectations. It's still full of everything that makes a Bethesda game a Bethesda game, but it's also far and away the best thing they've done.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 2 users

Ambiturner

Ssraeszha Raider
16,043
19,530
If you expected that to change... well, that's the definition of insanity.

I set the bar about an inch off the ground, as I do with every Bethesda game, and for once they actually massively surpassed my expectations. It's still full of everything that makes a Bethesda game a Bethesda game, but it's also far and away the best thing they've done.

Same. Didn't give 2 shits about a new IP so this wasn't even on my radar so and am really enjoying it.

Might feel different if I was expecting some holy experience, but unless it's a Fromsoft game that's going to leave you disappointed every time
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Burns

Avatar of War Slayer
7,441
14,655
I didn't expect much and feel I got what I expected. It's Fallout 4 in space and I will get about the same 30 to 40 hours out of it that I got with FO4. I haven't played in 3 days, because of lack of interest, but people say the UC missions and Pirate missions are good, so I at least want to get through them before quitting.
 

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
11,492
5,242
Biggest difference for me between Starfield and every other Bethesda game is instead of playing for a dozen or so hours and then immediately diving into making and downloading mods to fix everything wrong with the game, I played for almost 100 hours without even thinking about the need for mods. As it stands I did finally take a few minutes to install the most essential ones: StarUI, Starfield Graphics Optimization (massive performance boost for me), Upscaling Fix (FSR2 isn't properly implemented and makes textures look like ass -- apparently you need this if you're using a DLSS bridge too), and a intro video remover. Would really like to use a LUT mod, but they're still all too hamfisted in their approach to fixing it.
 

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
13,406
15,565
I had a pretty fun random encounter at some mining outpost. Saw some alien queen type creature and about three children and opened fire. Before I knew it I was swarmed by about a dozen shitlings and was boxed in. I dropped a grenade and boosted away, blasting away with my shotgun, killing most. Was a pretty satisfying Starship Troopers lite experience.
 
  • 5Like
Reactions: 4 users

velk

Trakanon Raider
2,636
1,214
The wrecked space station with no gravity was pretty entertaining, getting pinballed all over the place by weapon recoil.
 
  • 1Solidarity
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 users

Dr.Retarded

<Silver Donator>
12,112
27,575
The wrecked space station with no gravity was pretty entertaining, getting pinballed all over the place by weapon recoil.
Literally just finished that working on the freestar ranger line. I seem to be bouncing between faction quests based upon where things take me. It's fun finding those random one off missions when you're running around.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 2 users

rhinohelix

Dental Dammer
<Gold Donor>
3,043
5,007
Companions leaving you gets a bit wonky sometimes. I wandered into a place with robots saying they will kill you if you get close. I got close and they attacked me. I destroyed the robots and then got a UC Bounty on my head and Andreja got pissed and left me lol
I had this a similar-ish experience in "Deserted Science Facility/Lab": Robots say humans are not welcome and they are going to attack/terminate. I think, "well, ok, if you are going aggro, no time like the present." I kill them all. Andreja gets SUPER pissed and aggressive, wants to leave, I talk her down a little but she wants to go back to the lodge. I reload from before, run past robots, who don't attack despite their protestations. I loot the facility, go back to the Lodge, drop Andreja off, who I was planning to romance, switch back to Sarah, start the romance, and get married for my 15% "security" buff.
 
  • 2Worf
Reactions: 1 users

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
13,406
15,565
Has anyone made any giant warships with good success in combat? I've been using the Razorleaf and it kills great but I want to have a ship with a lot more cargo space. Plus, since I moved to very hard I've had to reload some of the encounters multiple times to beat them. Just wonder if I can built a fortress and not have it get chewed up (since I imagine the mobility of a large ship with huge cargo space is terrible).
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Dr.Retarded

<Silver Donator>
12,112
27,575
So how many companions do you guys have? I've only been running around with British lady, and just got some Vanguard guy through maybe the second or so main questline mission.

Do you need to just keep going through the main story to recruit them? Just been running so many side lines, my entourage is small.
 

Cybsled

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
17,087
13,610
Besides Constellation, plenty. The mining boss lady later on you can recruit to oversee your outposts, another one of the miners too. All the ones you can hire at the bar in New Atlantis spaceport (side note: The Simeon guy is a good weapon guy and he gives 0 fucks about you doing evil shit). The clone lady I just recently got as well.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user