Super Mario Odyssey

Utnayan · Jan 4, 2018

gshurik said:
It's objectively content. And sure, that's your prerogative and getting any more than 500 moons is completely down to each player. You can even fast track it by spending coins to repeatedly get moons if you don't want to hunt them out.

I would say it's objectively "Filler". I think "objectively content" is going through the levels in the game in a chronological order for the first time and once it is consumed, it's consumed. I never counted back tracking for collectibles hidden in an ability wall within the same mapped areas as anything but filler.

gshurik · Jan 4, 2018

Utnayan said:
I would say it's objectively "Filler". I think "objectively content" is going through the levels in the game in a chronological order for the first time and once it is consumed, it's consumed. I never counted back tracking for collectibles hidden in an ability wall within the same mapped areas as anything but filler.

So every metroidvania is filler then?

Utnayan · Jan 4, 2018

gshurik said:
So every metroidvania is filler then?

When it has to do with placing random objects you need (IE: weapon or ability) and forcing you go to through the same content you already passed with the same enemies in reverse, yes that's a cheap way to lengthen a game and call it "content", and that is what I call filler. Now, if these games have you explore new areas/maps/enemies to attain those weapons and abilities to go back to an area you were at and couldn't advance due to not having that weapon or ability, I would call that actual content.

gshurik · Jan 4, 2018

So precisely what Mario Odyssey has you do then?

Utnayan · Jan 4, 2018

gshurik said:
So precisely what Mario Odyssey has you do then?

Does it though? I was going back to maps I had already played through (rented it) and half the time moving through content I had already seen and done with one small "Oh now I can jump here", but it wasn't opening up any new areas with a ton of new content/map sourcing/enemies. It was "Ok now I can use this, get to this ledge, and get this moon". I consider that a lot different than say getting road blocked by a lava area in a metroid game, needing to find that suit that protects me, and then going through the lava area and opening up the next segment of the game to play through. (Not just random chasing of shit to get to an extra 2 worlds with a ledge I couldn't reach before in an area I had already been two 3 times. )

gshurik · Jan 4, 2018

gshurik said:
This is literally the bread and butter of collectathon games. It's like buying Forza and returning it because you hate racing.

Utnayan · Jan 4, 2018

Mario is a platformer at it's heart.

gshurik · Jan 4, 2018

TJT · Jan 4, 2018

I am not sure why you are so fervent here

gshurik . You are cockblocked in Odyssey by the Moons simply not existing until you finish the game and hit those Moon Cubes.

You don't require any additional skills to get them. You were never able to get them on the first pass. Requiring you to backtrack. This is not the same as unlocking abilities to go to areas you previously could not.

gshurik · Jan 4, 2018

TJT said:
I am not sure why you are so fervent here gshurik . You are cockblocked in Odyssey by the Moons simply not existing until you finish the game and hit those Moon Cubes.

You don't require any additional skills to get them. You were never able to get them on the first pass. Requiring you to backtrack. This is not the same as unlocking abilities to go to areas you previously could not.

The point is to have you return to previous areas and collect the things you missed and do different types of content (races being one type). Calling all backtracking filler is retarded. The point in the moon cubes is to give you a reason to explore those levels fully when you're not just rushing to each new stage by hitting the number of moons necessary to move on.

It promotes post game exploration instead of just opening up two maps. It also gives more value to the smaller kingdoms like the Lake Kingdom and Snow Kingdom.

TJT · Jan 4, 2018

gshurik said:
The point is to have you return to previous areas and collect the things you missed and do different types of content (races being one type). Calling all backtracking filler is retarded. The point in the moon cubes is to give you a reason to explore those levels fully when you're not just rushing to each new stage by hitting the number of moons necessary to move on.

It promotes post game exploration instead of just opening up two maps. It also gives more value to the smaller kingdoms like the Lake Kingdom and Snow Kingdom.

This is some serious fanboyism going on bro. I like the game a lot. I just dislike that aspect of it and vastly prefer collecting to 100% as I go rather than beating the game to unlock.... more shit to collect in places where I already made every effort to get everything in them.

gshurik · Jan 4, 2018

TJT said:
This is some serious fanboyism going on bro. I like the game a lot. I just dislike that aspect of it and vastly prefer collecting to 100% as I go rather than beating the game to unlock.... more shit to collect in places where I already made every effort to get everything in them.

Fanboyism? I just don't have a problem with post game content. It's pretty common in video games, champ.

Don't like it? Cool. Calling it bad? Subjective.

TJT · Jan 4, 2018

gshurik said:
Fanboyism? I just don't have a problem with post game content. It's pretty common in video games, champ.

Don't like it? Cool. Calling it bad? Subjective.

Lol. Going from, "calling it filler is retarded" to it being bad is subjective. Goalposts much?

gshurik · Jan 4, 2018

TJT said:
Lol. Going from, "calling it filler is retarded" to it being bad is subjective. Goalposts much?

Because it is retarded. It's not filler content, it's content.

Not liking it is fine, calling it filler is incorrect. (Though this is Utnayan who said it and hyperbole is his schtick)

Utnayan · Jan 4, 2018

It's filler. Content would be going to an entirely new map to collect the moons you need to unlock hidden levels and not have to revisit the same areas you have been already. If I design 5 maps, and lock 60% of the game behind abilities in those same 5 maps, you are getting 5 maps with the same content unless I phase it dynamically. Me placing random objects in a game to collect behind that ability wall doesn't make those 5 maps different just because you couldn't reach one small cliff before it while over 80% of the area is the same content you will rinse and repeat over and over again in the process.

gshurik · Jan 4, 2018

Utnayan said:
It's filler. Content would be going to an entirely new map to collect the moons you need to unlock hidden levels and not have to revisit the same areas you have been already. If I design 5 maps, and lock 60% of the game behind abilities in those same 5 maps, you are getting 5 maps with the same content unless I phase it dynamically. Me placing random objects in a game to collect behind that ability wall doesn't make those 5 maps different just because you couldn't reach one small cliff before it while over 80% of the area is the same content you will rinse and repeat over and over again in the process.

You're objectively wrong.

Utnayan · Jan 4, 2018

gshurik said:
You're objectively wrong.

I would challenge your perception of what is a collectible game as well. Mario is a platformer and I would say one of the best if not the best in it's class. However, people are purchasing it because of the unique level design and fun game play concepts, and moons need to be collected to get more of that content to get them to the next area they want to play through (What they care about). Running through content they already played through to achieve that result doesn't make it a collectible game, it makes it a tedious and monotonous chore where most people will say screw it, too bad I never saw those last 2 levels.

Mario is about as a collectible game before a platformer as PUBG is a persistent survival sandbox before a 100 person free for all shooter.

In short, and as a result, Mario 64 blows this game away in my opinion.

pharmakos · Jan 4, 2018

i agree with gshurik on this one.

gshurik · Jan 4, 2018

Those last 2 levels are post game content. The last world that non completionists will care about is the Mushroom Kingdom.

This is optional content that isn't missed if you don't care about 100%ing the game. This isn't content used mid game to artificially lengthen it. It's content added post game that promotes exploring and grabbing all the collectables in each map. This is 100% optional and only lightly gating the last post game map (Seeing as it's 500 moons, not the 880 actually in the game). These can also be purchased by coins.

Mario 64 and Sunshine are considered two of the best collectable games out there. I'm not sure why you'd imply these aren't really collectable games? By what metric? Banjo & Kazooie?

In short, and as a result, Mario 64 blows this game away in my opinion.

Utnayan complains about Switch game, more at 11.

Tenks · Jan 4, 2018

Filler would be when Bravely Default makes you replay the game again. Optional content is content.

Super Mario Odyssey

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