The Astronomy Thread

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pharmakos

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Why aren't you wearing silver lined clothes bro? Or a few magnetic field items (bracelet, anklet) to help shield yourself from that shit. Same thing happens to me. Use a silver weave in a ball cap or beanie hat that literally blocks that shit out and keeps you level. Total game changer. Unless you're down with wandering around in a faraday cage suit...
Once I started to recognize the cause and effect relationship, I was able to adjust the way I physiologically / mentally respond to it. Now I turn it into useful energy. Just wish it translated into actual physical energy instead of just mental energy.
 
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Tuco

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Nick Bostrom's foundational paper on the simulation hypothesis proposes his point by demonstrating that there would be several nested layers of simulations. Any simulation in our universe is likely contained inside a simulation in a higher level universe. Saying "wait what if WE WERE SIMULATING A SIMULATION?" is in no way shape or form a novel addition to the theory.
Look brother, I'm not here contributing novel ideas, I'm just saying that your idea that some alien species builds a simulator that enables them to resim their part of the universe to find where the humans are is silly, buuuuut if they figure fundamental principals of how our universe work (whether it's a simulation or not), they could. That's got very little to do with what you said though.
 

pharmakos

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Look brother, I'm not here contributing novel ideas, I'm just saying that your idea that some alien species builds a simulator that enables them to resim their part of the universe to find where the humans are is silly, buuuuut if they figure fundamental principals of how our universe work (whether it's a simulation or not), they could. That's got very little to do with what you said though.
But that's literally the point of simulating a universe... If you can simulate the past then there's no reason you can't simulate the future too.

A simulation of a universe would obviously rely on a thorough understanding of the laws of physics inside that universe. That was such an obvious part of what I was saying that it wasn't worth expressing.
 

pharmakos

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Think hard about this statement.
If the universe is purely deterministic then it's absolutely true. I already addressed how free will could mess up a simulation. If you mean something other than one of those two things, you're gonna have to spell it out.
 

Tuco

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If you can simulate the past then there's no reason you can't simulate the future too.

1674151796379.png


Like I said in my metaphor before, you're trying to figure out how a 5 gallon bucket worth of dice were stacked up based on how a few die ended up after rolling down a hill.
 

Edaw

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If the universe is purely deterministic then it's absolutely true. I already addressed how free will could mess up a simulation. If you mean something other than one of those two things, you're gonna have to spell it out.
If you know the past and future, and the 'universe' is deterministic, then what is the point of the simulation?
 

pharmakos

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View attachment 454089

Like I said in my metaphor before, you're trying to figure out how a 5 gallon bucket worth of dice were stacked up based on how a few die ended up after rolling down a hill.
You bring up "if" as if I didn't address all sides of the hypothesis....

Just like Nick Bostrom said in his original paper (have you read it btw? I reread it every year or so) it might be impossible to simulate a universe. You're still not saying anything new.
 

pharmakos

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If you know the past and future, and the 'universe' is deterministic, then what is the point of the simulation?
Then what's the point of anything? This isn't the philosophy thread go discuss nihilism somewhere else.
 

pharmakos

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If we are a simulation, we aren't deterministic, not that there isn't a point.
I don't think the universe is deterministic. I just brought up the possibility so I could cover all the angles. I also discussed the possibility that free will exists, you saw, right?
 

Captain Suave

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A civilization that can build a computer powerful enough to simulate a universe could build several additional supercomputers to autonomously analyze the data. And they could have hundreds of thousands of years to do it in. Look at all we've done with computers in the past 50 years even I mean shit.
This doesn't work unless you assume new/magic physics. You can't fully simulate this universe inside this universe, because the computer would need to have at least as many atoms as the universe. Any alien race in this universe would be running a simulation of a universe with simpler physics.
 
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pharmakos

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This doesn't work unless you assume new/magic physics. You can't fully simulate this universe inside this universe, because the computer would need to have at least as many atoms as the universe. Any alien race in this universe would be running a simulation of a universe with simpler physics.
"The computer would need to have at least as many atoms as the universe" was my original objection to simulation theory 20 years ago, and is actually still my favorite response. I think the universe just looks like a simulation because God is a rational / logical being. And the machinations of a 100% logical being will naturally resemble an algorithm (remember algorithms were around in math before computers were).

Even stuff like this weirdness is explainable by the rationality of God.

How Space and Time Could Be a Quantum Error-Correcting Code | Quanta Magazine
 
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pharmakos

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Tho Isaac Asimov in his science fiction short story "'The Last Question" gave us a moderately plausible explanation for how the universe could be a simulation that has as many atoms as the universe has. ^_^

And futurist Ray Kurzweil expanded on that idea in more serious discourse.
 
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Captain Suave

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Tho Isaac Asimov in his science fiction short story "'The Last Question" gave us a moderately plausible explanation for how the universe could be a simulation that has as many atoms as the universe has. ^_^

Sure, if you're satisfied with a simulation where the answer is the universe itself and takes until heat death to return. That's totally unactionable.
 

pharmakos

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Sure, if you're satisfied with a simulation where the answer is the universe itself and takes until heat death to return. That's totally unactionable.
The real science version by Ray Kurzweil is a lot more plausible than the Asimov scifi version of course.
 

pharmakos

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Wow! Like two pages of why I don't like to talk to stoners!
Despite the objections I received, I didn't say anything that people much smarter than you or I have said. I'm not making up my own shit here. Just repeating the words of philosophers, physicists, mathematicians, and futurists.

If you have objections then avoid pejoratives and state them clearly, so that I can rebut.
 

pharmakos

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Going back through earlier posts....
If we are a simulation, we aren't deterministic, not that there isn't a point.
...what was your reasoning behind this? I think that if the world is deterministic then we are MORE likely to be in a simulation. A simulation that perfectly replicates our own universe would ONLY be possible in a deterministic universe. Any amount of free will entering the system from outside the system would be uncomputable.

Edit -- Mayyyybe Douglas Hofstadter style strange loop arguments alter that (allowing for free will for individuals in a system while not necessitating the need for unmeasurable/uncomputable metaphysical forces outside the system) but how many of you guys are familiar with that? Sounds like another thing I'll bring up that will just get labelled as stoner logic.
 
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