Big Phoenix
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The Astronomy Thread
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Eomer
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Doesn't help when the plan is changed every 5 years and it's never properly funded.
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Id say its been going on longer than that. The Space Shuttle was a incredibly stupid idea(though the air force may of fucked it up?) in hindsight.
What they need to do is build a modern Saturn V to sling loads into LEO and then use NERVAs to leave LEO. The fact that they are talking about leaving LEO and not using nuclear rockets is pretty dumb. We perfected the technology in the damn 60s.
What they need to do is build a modern Saturn V to sling loads into LEO and then use NERVAs to leave LEO. The fact that they are talking about leaving LEO and not using nuclear rockets is pretty dumb. We perfected the technology in the damn 60s.
Eomer
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Uh, in what way is "kicked some fancy ideas around and wrote a paper or two" considered "perfected" for any advanced technology or propulsion system? The idea is neat in terms of interstellar travel, but considering how risky and expensive it remains to get shit in to LEO, I'd think that nuclear propulsion is getting ahead of ourselves still.
Khalan
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Im glad you've managed to figure out how to solve the entire space program in a few minutes, Im sure the thousands of hours of NASA engineers have spent on it was a big waste.
Khalan
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SO much this. NASA runs on 4 year cycles due to presidents, sometimes 8. Then it all changes, new congress, etc and the programs get defunded and are forced to re-pitch ideas/start again or change direction due to new leadership.
It takes them 20 years from concept to launch of most major military vehicles (JSF program started in 1996 and we are just seeing a few f35's active now), and a space vehicle is infinitely more difficult/complex to build. Nasa should be operating on timelines of 10-20 years with enough funding to get shit done (see 1960's moon race)
Palum
what Suineg set it to
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Those engineers aren't being asked how to do it, they're being asked how to do it eventually with forty dollars and a half pack of Mentos.
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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I have thousands of hours in KSP.
20 years? It took us 11 to go from Explorer 1 to landing on the moon. Shit like the JSF takes 20+ years because LM is milking the tax payer for every dime possible while the military thinks you can somehow design a jet that is every bit as capable as 4 radically different jets.
NERVA was completely tested, working and ready to go into space until Apollo was canceled. We already build rockets as best as we can, it doesnt get any better than liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen.
Xequecal
Trump's Staff
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The problem with this thing is if there's an accident it will shit radioactive material all over the atmosphere. It's not a lot of radiation, but if you remember people were panicking over the idea that radiation from Fukushima would make it over here despite being dissolved in the entire Pacific Ocean. Just imagine the panic if one of these were to explode on launch.
iannis
Musty Nester
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plus the fact that, you know... we launch uranium into orbit and maybe the russians get anxious... even if it doesn't blow up.
There are some very real political considerations to that. The kind that can start wars. So it's probably better to form a joint mission to do that sort of thing.
That joint mission won't come from the governments, it'll come from the corporations if it comes from anywhere.
There probably was a window for that back in the 50's and 60's. It closed in the 70's and might have briefly reopened in the mid 90's. But we're just gonna have to wait for it to come around again.
There are some very real political considerations to that. The kind that can start wars. So it's probably better to form a joint mission to do that sort of thing.
That joint mission won't come from the governments, it'll come from the corporations if it comes from anywhere.
There probably was a window for that back in the 50's and 60's. It closed in the 70's and might have briefly reopened in the mid 90's. But we're just gonna have to wait for it to come around again.
Khalan
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Thats exactly my point dude, the Apollo program succeeded in such a short time because they were given more than 4 years of the same program AND they were given WAY more of the budget (around 3-4% of total GDP, compared to 0.5% now). If NASA wants to do shit at the same speed as they did in the 60's they will need much much more money. The other consideration is that even though the budget was 4%, it was spent almost entirely on a single program (the Apollo program), that is ALL NASA did back then. These days NASA is working on a lot of projects, both long and short range. LEO and Geo Orbit, probes, science missions, satellites. Etc etc. So that 0.5% isn't even being fully applied to the Mars missions etc.
Finally, Mars in particular is exponentially harder than the moon.
Cad
scientia potentia est
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Mariner Program
Ranger Program
Gemini Program and Manned Orbital Laboratory
Syncom Satellites
Telstar Satellites
Keyhole Satellites
Surveyor Program
Other communications satellites following Telsar too
Khalan
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Ok I did a bit more research and Apollo Spending was about 40-50% of the NASA budget from 1962-1970. That is still a massive chunk compared to today and we had way more money in general.
khorum
Murder Apologist
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Orion was hilarious. That was actually one of Freeman Dyson's actual real-life projects.
They weren't gonna use massive megaton devices though. The actual project specs called for making smaller coke-can sized nukes similar to the ones used in nuclear artillery at the time. The whole thing was only gonna work if they could make a nuke that worked like a "shaped charge" that focused the blast upwards towards the blast plate of the spacecraft for optimal thrust.
Dyson's son actually gave a TED talk about finding his dad's papers on it:
Cad
scientia potentia est
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Fair enough, no argument sir! I would love to see a bunch more work for NASA.