Alasliasolonik
Toilet of the Mod Elect
- 4,908
- 9,890
The Division 2
- Thread starter spronk
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 39,426
- 129,710
Ironically, the game was just about perfect when it was WT4. It was when they implemented WT5 that they fucked it all up by destroying drop rates.
WT4 was a fucking blast. You could actually grind for gear at max level.
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They're finally going to look at fixing loot.
Gear sets reduced down to 4 piece bonuses, added to general loot pool (probably a really lot drop rate), hard wired moved to general loot instead of crafted.
Brand sets pieces for all 6 slots, for better mix and matching.
New named items with perfect version of talents.
Daily rotated targeted loot drops from zones or missions.
Recalibration can now swap between color stats.
More material space.
Stash to 300 space.
Gear sets reduced down to 4 piece bonuses, added to general loot pool (probably a really lot drop rate), hard wired moved to general loot instead of crafted.
Brand sets pieces for all 6 slots, for better mix and matching.
New named items with perfect version of talents.
Daily rotated targeted loot drops from zones or missions.
Recalibration can now swap between color stats.
More material space.
Stash to 300 space.
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Malinatar
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 629
- 237
Seeing this while welcome just pisses me off as I've moved on quite awhile ago. All the nerfs and tuning predictably just like a broken record turned the game to shit and now the "All knowing" Devs/Designers are trying to "fix" their "fixes" yet again. Is there literally a clueless/idiot pill they all are ingesting time and time again?
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Very glad they are fixing loot and hopefully the inventory system. It is one of the biggest oversights I have ever seen in a game. It makes playing the game practically pointless at max level, which is a shame, because it's there is a really good game at the core. Blows my mind that team looked at that inventory system, and progression in general, and thought "this is ok". It's that bad. Still, I really enjoyed the time on the game up until then... But this is probably a few months too late.
Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 39,426
- 129,710
The fucked up part, and I've said it before in this thread, is that up to WT4 the system was perfect. And that period before WT5 got introduced I was hooked. Why they decided to do something completely different is beyond me.
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Vorph
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 11,492
- 5,243
Anyone actually still play this or coming back for the new update? I guess I'm a glutton for punishment, but after the disappointment of GR Breakpoint I feel like playing Division 2 again. Especially now that I have a PC that can run it on ultra, and my Uplay+ sub is still ticking for at least a couple more weeks. Always heard about how ridiculously better Div 2 was on PC, while console players were barely able to complete the raid at all, so that made me curious too. So far I'm not seeing any massive improvements by playing with m/k though, and I've already thought about picking my gamepad half a dozen times in the first couple hours with a new character.
Really sucks that Ubi doesn't do cross-save even though Uplay has its greasy paws in everything. If I stick with this, I've got a ton of shit between BPs, mods, cosmetics, event cosmetics (that I don't even know if they ever rotate back around), etc. to redo. I had all three classes completely maxed out on PS4 too, and now there's 5 of them.
If anyone has played recently, I could use a break down of the current state of skills. I unlocked revive hive and reinforcer chem launcher first as always, but I'm feeling like the nerfed chems are really shitty now. Not sure if there's something better to level with / use for a first build now.
Really sucks that Ubi doesn't do cross-save even though Uplay has its greasy paws in everything. If I stick with this, I've got a ton of shit between BPs, mods, cosmetics, event cosmetics (that I don't even know if they ever rotate back around), etc. to redo. I had all three classes completely maxed out on PS4 too, and now there's 5 of them.
If anyone has played recently, I could use a break down of the current state of skills. I unlocked revive hive and reinforcer chem launcher first as always, but I'm feeling like the nerfed chems are really shitty now. Not sure if there's something better to level with / use for a first build now.
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Vorph
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 11,492
- 5,243
Kind of, I guess. I'm not completely up to speed, but my understanding is that you can now do at least some targeted farming of gear, and also the cap on recalibration was increased again. I'm not optimistic about it being any easier to instantly decide what is worth keeping and what is trash, but at least you have 300 slots to fill up with garbage before having to clear it all out, so that's... something? Gear sets not being 100% trash (and also no longer needing more than 4pc to unlock all the perks) will be a pleasant change from the last time I played too.
They still seem to be stubbornly refusing to even consider putting the Optimization Station back into Div 2, which is pants on head retarded.
Junun
Silver Knight of the Realm
- 235
- 87
70% off the game right now, picked it up for the heck of it. Really enjoyed div1 towards the end, figure why not.
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GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
- 7,164
- 18,153
So, how much of what I thought on june 12th of this year was accurate?
It LOOKS and reads like they basically hit or grazed all the same potholes with Div2 as they did in Div1.
Did this game WARRANT an entirely new game or should it have been an episodic release / expansion where they build on the old game as you progress through to a new place?
Vorph
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 11,492
- 5,243
Div 2 released in March so I assume you mean last year...?
Some of it was right, and I do mostly agree that Div 2 should have been an expansion rather than a whole new game. Most of the changes from Div 1 felt like they were done for the sake of change, despite the fact that the designers could never actually come up with better systems than what already existed. They still did them anyway though. That said, the game was still in great shape when it launched. Div 2's problems were almost entirely post-release. People didn't like the stupid shit in the game and complained about it so loudly that Massive was forced to do something about it. Unfortunately, they were very spiteful about it, basically "Oh, so you assholes don't like what we gave you, well fuck you... we'll make it all even worse than before and maybe you'll think twice about complaining further." was the impression I got from nearly every change they made from release to the start of the raid when I quit for good.
As of TU6, a lot of stuff has actually been fixed without the devs being cocksuckers about it. There were a lot of nerfs again that ruined gear people spent a huge amount of time farming, and again without a GS increase to soften the blow. But [re]farming good shit for new builds is reasonable now. You can actually craft weapons up to 500 now, which is cool since the P416 nerf made FAMAS and Police M4 more or less tied for the top spot in the AR list. (FAMAS does slightly more damage, M4 is vastly easier to control even on m/k.) The raid exotic Eagle Bearer is still the best AR, but in a rare "good nerf" they managed to tone it down from obscenely better to just slightly better, which is good since raiding in a game like Div 2 is retarded and the gun is an ungodly rare (~2%?) drop.
You can also target farm gear by brand, slot, and (I think?) talent. All brands make items for all 6 slots now (probably the best change of all so far). It's also much simpler to transfer talents around, although AFAIK the recalibration system still vastly favors items that have the correct talent(s) on them so that you can instead move stats. That part seems to be even more important now since the recalibration point cap was raised too. I don't think you can change stat colors yet either, which was always one of my biggest complaints about the design.
There's still a lot more I haven't gotten to personally yet. I just hit 30 last night and need to slog through the GS grind to get back into WT5, and it sounds to me like the blueprint grind is more annoying than ever (the BPs only drop from CP4+ now?). Wish I knew someone who could drop me a set of WT5 gear and shortcut at least that part of the grind on PC, but I don't. Overall I'd say the game is about where Div 1 was at with the 1.4 patch. Still a long way to go to get back to the greatness of 1.7 and 1.8, but at least they are finally on the right track again.
Some of it was right, and I do mostly agree that Div 2 should have been an expansion rather than a whole new game. Most of the changes from Div 1 felt like they were done for the sake of change, despite the fact that the designers could never actually come up with better systems than what already existed. They still did them anyway though. That said, the game was still in great shape when it launched. Div 2's problems were almost entirely post-release. People didn't like the stupid shit in the game and complained about it so loudly that Massive was forced to do something about it. Unfortunately, they were very spiteful about it, basically "Oh, so you assholes don't like what we gave you, well fuck you... we'll make it all even worse than before and maybe you'll think twice about complaining further." was the impression I got from nearly every change they made from release to the start of the raid when I quit for good.
As of TU6, a lot of stuff has actually been fixed without the devs being cocksuckers about it. There were a lot of nerfs again that ruined gear people spent a huge amount of time farming, and again without a GS increase to soften the blow. But [re]farming good shit for new builds is reasonable now. You can actually craft weapons up to 500 now, which is cool since the P416 nerf made FAMAS and Police M4 more or less tied for the top spot in the AR list. (FAMAS does slightly more damage, M4 is vastly easier to control even on m/k.) The raid exotic Eagle Bearer is still the best AR, but in a rare "good nerf" they managed to tone it down from obscenely better to just slightly better, which is good since raiding in a game like Div 2 is retarded and the gun is an ungodly rare (~2%?) drop.
You can also target farm gear by brand, slot, and (I think?) talent. All brands make items for all 6 slots now (probably the best change of all so far). It's also much simpler to transfer talents around, although AFAIK the recalibration system still vastly favors items that have the correct talent(s) on them so that you can instead move stats. That part seems to be even more important now since the recalibration point cap was raised too. I don't think you can change stat colors yet either, which was always one of my biggest complaints about the design.
There's still a lot more I haven't gotten to personally yet. I just hit 30 last night and need to slog through the GS grind to get back into WT5, and it sounds to me like the blueprint grind is more annoying than ever (the BPs only drop from CP4+ now?). Wish I knew someone who could drop me a set of WT5 gear and shortcut at least that part of the grind on PC, but I don't. Overall I'd say the game is about where Div 1 was at with the 1.4 patch. Still a long way to go to get back to the greatness of 1.7 and 1.8, but at least they are finally on the right track again.
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Still blows my mind that they are competent enough to make a game with good core gameplay, and yet still allow for the absolute shit show that is itemization and inventory management to bypass quality control/testing. At tier 5 you look at your inventory, and your fucking head explodes.
I really liked this game, until I realized at the end-game you just inventory control and items don't mean anything (because you could never actually aim for specific item improvements without pure luck). My question(s) are:
- Is the inventory control actually better? Is it easier to look at an item and say differentiate if it's good or not?
- They talked about allowing you to re-calibrate items stats, without actually having to match the color-coding (similar stat family - skills can only replace skills, damage can only replace damage perks etc)?
The gear farming clean up looks like a move in the right direction, at least it's not completely aimless RNG. Fucking around and making good builds was just way too much fucking work for a non-mmo game. Set pieces are hopefully worthwhile now? I wanna be able to pop in every few months throw together some gear and a build and be 85% of what other players are without having to do insane calculations and shit.
I really liked this game, until I realized at the end-game you just inventory control and items don't mean anything (because you could never actually aim for specific item improvements without pure luck). My question(s) are:
- Is the inventory control actually better? Is it easier to look at an item and say differentiate if it's good or not?
- They talked about allowing you to re-calibrate items stats, without actually having to match the color-coding (similar stat family - skills can only replace skills, damage can only replace damage perks etc)?
The gear farming clean up looks like a move in the right direction, at least it's not completely aimless RNG. Fucking around and making good builds was just way too much fucking work for a non-mmo game. Set pieces are hopefully worthwhile now? I wanna be able to pop in every few months throw together some gear and a build and be 85% of what other players are without having to do insane calculations and shit.
GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
- 7,164
- 18,153
God damn it was last year LOL...
Well, I'll look for the complete set in the bargain bin in a bit then, Div 1 was interesting but honestly felt like they locked a ton of "End game" content behind their shitty season system.
I was gunna make a comparison about how WoW would be a fucking dumb company if they started charging for end-game content and then it hit me...they do...they release a patch after like 3 months that has the raid tier, then another patch 3 months later and by the end of the expansion you've basically been paying a sub for a year for all the end game content + catch-up mechanics (120ish USD)
Vorph
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 11,492
- 5,243
Recalibration is actually much better now. Here's what it currently looks like when you replace a stat:
As you can see, I'm able to replace a red stat with a blue one now. And after I select the specific stat (health in this case) I want to replace it shows me all the health rolls I have on everything in my inventory and stash, which is a nice QOL change as well. Unless I've missed some other change, I still think it's a major downside and poor design that only gear which rolls with the talent(s) you require for your build is useful, because talent-recalibrated gear is hugely inferior to stat-recalibrated.
Overall though, when you consider that you can craft most of the top tier guns at GS500, all brands make gear for all slots, gear sets only require 4pcs (and can be obtained outside the shitty raid, if you can live with not having the unique bonuses on vest/backpack), and targeted farming of at least brand and slot is possible, the loot is in pretty decent shape now. I'd still be majorly pissed if I'd had a set of 100+ farmed stuff made obsolete yet again in a patch that doesn't increase the GS cap, but since I just started over from scratch on PC it's not so bad. It would have been way too much effort to bother with after all the hours I put into the PS4 version, but it seems manageable now. It certainly seems like getting a set of good gear will be much less of a soul-crushing grind than getting all the specs to 165/165 again (plus it's x5 now instead of x3).
As you can see, I'm able to replace a red stat with a blue one now. And after I select the specific stat (health in this case) I want to replace it shows me all the health rolls I have on everything in my inventory and stash, which is a nice QOL change as well. Unless I've missed some other change, I still think it's a major downside and poor design that only gear which rolls with the talent(s) you require for your build is useful, because talent-recalibrated gear is hugely inferior to stat-recalibrated.
Overall though, when you consider that you can craft most of the top tier guns at GS500, all brands make gear for all slots, gear sets only require 4pcs (and can be obtained outside the shitty raid, if you can live with not having the unique bonuses on vest/backpack), and targeted farming of at least brand and slot is possible, the loot is in pretty decent shape now. I'd still be majorly pissed if I'd had a set of 100+ farmed stuff made obsolete yet again in a patch that doesn't increase the GS cap, but since I just started over from scratch on PC it's not so bad. It would have been way too much effort to bother with after all the hours I put into the PS4 version, but it seems manageable now. It certainly seems like getting a set of good gear will be much less of a soul-crushing grind than getting all the specs to 165/165 again (plus it's x5 now instead of x3).
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Well... it didn't suffer from the hacker fest of d1... that I'm aware of anyways. It's certainly not on the same level of bugs and cash shop as Ghost recon.
The biggest problem was the loot, on multiple levels, which they've fixed on multiple levels last patch. Last night I was working on unlocking the technician spec and had to run through the invaded missions to get the arena open for a normal run, plus a capital hill run, and probably got like 30 set pieces, a couple perfect talent pieces, and the exotic shotgun from random and end mission drops.
They introduced a lot more random stats and talents to gear than d1, plus colored gear mods, plus talents requiring colors, plus limited slots for brands, plus set requiring 6 pieces, that made the system a clusterfuck to deal with. Now with the brand being all slots, stats being able to replace one entirely for anything else, and sets back down to 4 makes the system a lot better to create builds around (although the sets in d1 were way better so far). Only took them 6 months to get their vindictive heads (gun mod system they obviously hated that players hated it) out of their asses and finally fixed stuff.
Crafting is better, recal is a little better organized and the swap between any color is a good change, I can understand why they wouldn't want to bring back optimization back this early into the game's life, it's a looter shooter and loot is the hamster wheel they need you to be on all the time, if you end up with the perfect gear in a lot less time, some motivation to play the game is going to be lost. If you're not primarily grinding for gear in these games what else are you doing? doing fluff achievements or getting the lowest clear times?
Content wise they've released new missions, expeditions which is missions on like a 3 week rotation timer and suppose to have mastery to build around? not a fan of this, they've had more open world events to do than d1 ever did, next raid delayed to next year (I don't care). But they haven't released anything extra like survival or underground or resistance modes yet, all of which were like year1 year2 releases anyways and probably plan on bringing back at some point.
Was it worth being a new game than an expansion to d1? depends I guess, raids replaced incursions, the open world is a different season and supposedly 20% bigger than the ny area, and was set up differently with much more activities to do from the get go, missions pulling double duty with invaded versions, hvt turned into bounties, the new specializations give you a different way to play but are basically talent trees. I would guess there's enough there to be a new game than an expansion. They just tried to experiment with too many changes to the entire loot system (basically add more rng layers to make it take longer to get perfect gear) and failed at it.
The biggest problem was the loot, on multiple levels, which they've fixed on multiple levels last patch. Last night I was working on unlocking the technician spec and had to run through the invaded missions to get the arena open for a normal run, plus a capital hill run, and probably got like 30 set pieces, a couple perfect talent pieces, and the exotic shotgun from random and end mission drops.
They introduced a lot more random stats and talents to gear than d1, plus colored gear mods, plus talents requiring colors, plus limited slots for brands, plus set requiring 6 pieces, that made the system a clusterfuck to deal with. Now with the brand being all slots, stats being able to replace one entirely for anything else, and sets back down to 4 makes the system a lot better to create builds around (although the sets in d1 were way better so far). Only took them 6 months to get their vindictive heads (gun mod system they obviously hated that players hated it) out of their asses and finally fixed stuff.
Crafting is better, recal is a little better organized and the swap between any color is a good change, I can understand why they wouldn't want to bring back optimization back this early into the game's life, it's a looter shooter and loot is the hamster wheel they need you to be on all the time, if you end up with the perfect gear in a lot less time, some motivation to play the game is going to be lost. If you're not primarily grinding for gear in these games what else are you doing? doing fluff achievements or getting the lowest clear times?
Content wise they've released new missions, expeditions which is missions on like a 3 week rotation timer and suppose to have mastery to build around? not a fan of this, they've had more open world events to do than d1 ever did, next raid delayed to next year (I don't care). But they haven't released anything extra like survival or underground or resistance modes yet, all of which were like year1 year2 releases anyways and probably plan on bringing back at some point.
Was it worth being a new game than an expansion to d1? depends I guess, raids replaced incursions, the open world is a different season and supposedly 20% bigger than the ny area, and was set up differently with much more activities to do from the get go, missions pulling double duty with invaded versions, hvt turned into bounties, the new specializations give you a different way to play but are basically talent trees. I would guess there's enough there to be a new game than an expansion. They just tried to experiment with too many changes to the entire loot system (basically add more rng layers to make it take longer to get perfect gear) and failed at it.
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Vorph
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 11,492
- 5,243
Yeah, to be fair when I say I want Optimization Station back, all I really mean at this point is I want a way to max out my gun's damage roll. Nothing worse than getting a gun with the exact talents you wanted on it, only to realize the fucking thing does 20% less damage than a max roll one would and it's unfixable garbage. Crafted guns being top tier again doesn't help much even, because you still can't recalibrate replicas and rolling the perfect talents is much harder. If they won't give us back optimization for that at least, I wish they'd just get rid of damage range on guns in the next GS increase but that probably won't happen either.