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Its not "winning", per say, there really isn't any winning in these games if you think about it. But it is advancing quicker than you would normally, so I would call that P2W.
The Elder Scrolls Online
- Thread starter Anomander Rake
- Start date
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Most games do not have in game obtainable exp pots, or at least the ones I have played. But they sure had them in the F2P shop.
Here is also a perfect example why F2P sucks....
So I used to play SWTOR and one of the things SWTOR had in the beginning is hidden mini bosses and elite mobs which dropped slot-able "orange" gear. Now for those not familiar with SWTOR, this gear was not uber or anything, it was just another cosmetic option for other slot-able gear in the game. It had no stats, other than a level requirement in which then you "slotted" all the stats to.
So I had a great time with this when I came to realize that most zones had a few of these mobs in them. It made me want to explore and kill every elite I came across. Then when I rolled up some noob alts, I used to use my main to farm some of these mobs for more slot-able gear.
But then F2P came about and what did they do? They removed all those drops form all the elite mobs in the world and put in replacement orange gear in the F2P shop. Its funny too because the game was fucking brokeback, needed more content, etc. They never had time to fix it, but they sure had time enough to remove all the shit from the world and put it in the cash shop. At that time I swore I would never play that game again, and never did.
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What do you mean advance towards what? Advancement is the cornerstone of any mmorpg ever made. Higher levels usually mean more and better skills, better spells, more dungeons, higher level zones, better gear, better weapons. In some games, closer to the "end game" where the true game begins. Really? You dont know what you are advancing toward? Are you trolling me or something?
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If you think about it, any item added to the F2P shop, is one less item added to the world.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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What I'm asking you is, in an instanced game, how does that give you an advantage over others? I'm failing to see one. Maybe there could be an argument made for levelling quicker means you have more time at cap to farm better gear? I guess in a PVP sense this matters somewhat? Certainly to enough for me to give a shit.
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But some people do. Go check the FFXIV thread and see the amount of people planning a poopsocking party this weekend so they can get ahead. I mean, if it does not matter like you say, why do the do this?
Its the competitive nature in some people, like myself for instance where this shit does matter. And adding in F2P exp pots cheapens that experience since its no longer an even playing field. Might as well just add F2P already leveled up characters for sale then, what does it matter, right?
Its the competitive nature in some people, like myself for instance where this shit does matter. And adding in F2P exp pots cheapens that experience since its no longer an even playing field. Might as well just add F2P already leveled up characters for sale then, what does it matter, right?
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Fair enough. If people wanna create some absurd illusion of competition in their mind in a situation where there is no winner, so be it.
By this logic, since I work and have a life and can't poopsock, shouldn't MMOs limit everyone else's exp based on the average a normal can play? Essentially, an exp pot won't ruin a game any quicker than a bunch of people who play it 24x7 and destroy its economy and spoil everything about it in 3 weeks.
People will compete regardless, and both time and money are factors. I think convenience and less time costing more money equals out in the end.
I think an exp pot is far different from buying a mega vorpal sword of death. One is convenience. The other in my mind is actual P2W.
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I think you are wrong, in the sense that the Vorpal sword of Death only takes time to acquire. Same as exp. Everything inside a mmo equates to time spent, essentially. There is no skills to acquire exp or items aside your basic functioning social skills andTIME.
Also that sword of death is noting more than a convenience as well if you really think about it.
zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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Time is the worst excuse for winning ever made and why exp pots aren't P2W. There is no skill, luck, forethought, or training needed to put more time in. You have made a conscious choice to use your 24 daily hours differently than someone else but it doesn't necessarily make you more skillful or better. It is the whiniest excuse of people who do not have the skill or ability to win except to put more time in. I put the time in so YOU OWE ME. You should already be more skilled, interact with more people, and have more stuff if you play more. That's the reward.
What is that other person doing that affects you so much? Oh yeah, makes your Time Achievement 107 less meaningful(if that's really possible).Honestly, the people who make death threats to developers, etc are usually the people who play the most and have no clue how to function in normal society. They should be giving those people less carrots so they can stalk someone else on the nets.
Edit- I don't endorse exp pots for the same reason Creed outlines below but I've always thought his reasoning to be the best argument against exp pots.
What is that other person doing that affects you so much? Oh yeah, makes your Time Achievement 107 less meaningful(if that's really possible).Honestly, the people who make death threats to developers, etc are usually the people who play the most and have no clue how to function in normal society. They should be giving those people less carrots so they can stalk someone else on the nets.
Edit- I don't endorse exp pots for the same reason Creed outlines below but I've always thought his reasoning to be the best argument against exp pots.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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TOR is no example you'd bring up in a discussion about reasonable F2P models, but the point about each item in the shop being one less in the world applies to alot games. In that regard I think Blizzard is doing well, but still have a sub and the shop items are pure bonus. F2P/B2P games dont have that luxury. I've been harping on that point but GW2 sucks in this regard. I suppose with a sub + shop this game can be more selective in the shop similar to blizzard does it with WoW (which has like, a couple of cosmetic items per year added and nothing else?).
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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My stance on xp pots is that when the game is fun playing, wtf do I need xp pots for? So I get to the end faster? It sounds like fast forwarding through a movie you are enjoying. If the game isnt fun, wth am I doing there?
I can imagine plenty of cases where you can argue for them being P2W, easiest example is a game that really starts at the cap but without the 1000x xp booster it takes you a bit too long to get there. But really is reaching a level cap a concern these days? If someone wants to race to the cap at server start well shit, if I want to compete in a race I buy running shoes. Analogies are bull as usual but the point is racing to cap is not a goal set forth by the game, and any goal you set for yourself might be impaired by certain conditions outside your control. That guy having the xp boost, your server's emergency downtime, the fact that someone bought the collectors edition and started earlier, whatever else.
I can imagine plenty of cases where you can argue for them being P2W, easiest example is a game that really starts at the cap but without the 1000x xp booster it takes you a bit too long to get there. But really is reaching a level cap a concern these days? If someone wants to race to the cap at server start well shit, if I want to compete in a race I buy running shoes. Analogies are bull as usual but the point is racing to cap is not a goal set forth by the game, and any goal you set for yourself might be impaired by certain conditions outside your control. That guy having the xp boost, your server's emergency downtime, the fact that someone bought the collectors edition and started earlier, whatever else.
Utnayan
I Love Utnayan he’s awesome
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All video games that involve others are competitive to a certain extent whether it involves a clear winner or not. This is fairly obvious to just about everyone who doesn't work for the industry and turns the other cheek because they are involveds in a F2P project, therefore, their checks ride on it succeeding.
Know anyone that fits that description Quaid?
You can have fun playing at your pace. And they can have fun poopsocking to have a 2% advantage over you. BUT, you might be envious of the 2% advantage they have, so you will feel compelled to play more. The more you play, the more friends in-game you will make and the less friends you will encounter out in the "real world". So you yourself begin to spend more and more time in game. It's a vicious cycle, and it works to make you enjoy the game more. You know it's not a fair playing field, so you try for a competitive advantage. People that aren't in the top tier look to the people at the top tier and feel envy. It's basic human nature. You want to keep up with the Jones. Even if you're unable to do so, you'll enjoy commiserating with other people who are also unable to do so.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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P2W means any item that gives you a gameplay advantage that no player not using the cash shop can achieve in a reasonable time frame. Anything else is convenience (sometimes real big convenience, such as a 2nd character slot, or more than the paltry bank slots you being with) or cosmetic (same stats, different look).
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Are you implying that I'm some kind of industry insider?
I'm in charge of operations at a group of 3 restaurants in Southern Ontario... I also bartend on the side...
I can send you a gift certificate if you like. We have some pretty awesome local microbrews on tap...